Blues Scales Ques

[Finsterino]

Trying to understand these type scales.

So lets say song is in D. Notes in the blues scale are DFGAbAC

I can arpaggiate the D with DFA (within the blues scale).

But the G would normally be GBbD, but there is no Bb in the scale??

Same for A: should be A C E, but no E in the blues scale.

How to solve this?

TNX
Dave

[bonzo4880]

the blues scale you are referring to is really just a D minor pentatonic scale with the b5 added (in this case, Ab). The other two notes that "aren't there" are part of the D natural minor scale, which is: D E F G A Bb C . The pentatonic scale (major or minor) is a simplified version of the regular 7 note scale, lacking the 2nd and 6th notes. D minor pent = D F G A C.

[ZigyBass77]

IMO, you shouldnt learn the blues scale at all. I still dont understand why teachers apply this to their methods. The blues scale is just a really cheesy scale that isnt worth learning.

If you want to learn a cool sounding scale that is similar to the blues scale, but much more hip, then try Dorian.

The Dorian Scale is D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D. This leaves out the note between the 4th and 5th scale degrees.

[ZigyBass77]

the Dorian (mode) scale also solves your arpeggiating problem. In Dorian, the A chord has its E and C (and G if you want to play the 7th), and the G chord has a cool sounding major third (B natural), D, and also the 7th (F Natural).

IMO, you should disregard the blues scale.

[mambo4]

I wouldn't say you should disregard or forget the blues scale, it does have its uses. for a beginner, its easy to play and it sounds cool, which can be quite rewarding early on. Certainly real blues players go far beyond it.

Your difficulty in understanding comes from the fact that the 'blues scale' is not a harmonic mode like the 7 note diatonic scales are. The harmony of blues music is not a direct result of chord building based on the blues scale. It is better to relate your understanding of blues chords to regular major and minor scale based harmonies.

Do not get hung up on the blues scale as and exclusive choice. Good Blues players rarely confine their ideas to that scale, they play 'outside' it all the time. Ultimately the note choices are about your ear and your feel...

[Finsterino]

OK Zig - I think I am with you. Using Dorian, I can get my "standard" I and V three note minor chords, and with a bit mental adjustment do the IV as a major chord.

Or as Mambo suggests , loosen my rules up a bit and use the IV minor that I am used to .

Thanks Men!

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by ZigyBass77

IMO, you shouldnt learn the blues scale at all. I still dont understand why teachers apply this to their methods. The blues scale is just a really cheesy scale that isnt worth learning.

If you want to learn a cool sounding scale that is similar to the blues scale, but much more hip, then try Dorian.

The Dorian Scale is D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D. This leaves out the note between the 4th and 5th scale degrees.

Nonsense. For a start Dorian doesn't have a b5 which is the key element of the blues scale. Secondly claiming any scale isn't worth learning is completely myopic.

Scales are just groups of notes. How those notes relate is what gives a scale it's "flavour". Dorian is not the same "flavour" as the blues scale. It's like saying "Hey don't eat chocolate, carob is much more hip".

[ZigyBass77]

i meant that the Dorian scale isnt exactly the blues, but that it was similar to it with a couple adjustments (leaving out the flat 5 and adding the major 6).

i was just saying that in my opinion, i feel that the blues scale could be left out of taught material.

i will agree that the blues scale has a certain flavor and other people will like it. but i've always found it really lame.

maybe a better approach to the blues scale would be to understanding blue notes and playing them accordingly in your music.

[alexgeddy]

maybe somebodey out to tell him how to play a minor chord on the bass and a major chord...and the relative minor...might solve his problems

Bill

[mutedeity]

As I said scales are just groups of notes. there is nothing "lame" about scales, any scale. The only thing that can be "lame" is the way the scale is used.

Dorain, aeolian and phrygian all all have the common notes of the minor pentatonic. Add the b5 to those common notes and you have a blues scale. The blues scale can be left out of "taught" material about as much as any other given scale.

Teaching isn't about showing people scales, it's about teaching them the tonal context of notes melodically and harmonically and what you can do with the relationships formed by them. If someone wanted me to teach them how to make something sound "bluesey" I am going to use the blues scale as a basic example of how the tritone will do so.

Also, it's not just a matter that dorian has a few different notes to the blues scale. You can say that about any number of scales. If you change one note in a scale you have changed the context of the entire scale really. So if the blues scale is the scale that works and gives a certain effect then playing dorian isn't going to give you the same result at all.

[DaveAceofBass]

Originally Posted by ZigyBass77

IMO, you shouldnt learn the blues scale at all. I still dont understand why teachers apply this to their methods. The blues scale is just a really cheesy scale that isnt worth learning.

If you want to learn a cool sounding scale that is similar to the blues scale, but much more hip, then try Dorian.

The Dorian Scale is D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D. This leaves out the note between the 4th and 5th scale degrees.

Man, you'd have a hard time playing any sort of rock, pop, funk, or rnb without a blues scale, let alone jazz. I'm not just talking about improv, but about the meodies. The minor pent is almost the same, so the addition of the b5 is the only difference. I think minor pent might be used more frequently...but they're practically the same, and you must learn them if you want to have any real vocabulary.

[RiddimKing]

"Trying to understand these type scales.

So lets say song is in D. Notes in the blues scale are DFGAbAC

I can arpaggiate the D with DFA (within the blues scale).

But the G would normally be GBbD, but there is no Bb in the scale??

Same for A: should be A C E, but no E in the blues scale.

How to solve this?"

Commonly, blues bassists will play within a modulating Mixolydian scale over the changes of a non-minor blues. Try it: In a G blues, play G Mixolydian for the I, C Mixolydian for the IV and D Mixolydian for the V. The blues scale, on the other hand, is excellent for soloing in a blues, should you get that opportunity (or want it). If I'm FOS here, anyone can feel free to correct me.

[rarisgod]

Wow this thread taught me something. I just had to post saying that.
I've always felt rather limited in the blues scale, however. All I can ever think to use that b5 for is rolling from the 4 to the 5. Any other time, it sounds like a note out of place. With however I'm playing it, that is. Any suggestions?

[CapnSev]

I second the Dorian mode.

If your song has a major 3rd, use Mixolydian.

Those two scales get me just about anywhere in blues-related music.

[ryco]

Originally Posted by Finsterino

Trying to understand these type scales.

So lets say song is in D. Notes in the blues scale are DFGAbAC

I can arpeggiate the D with DFA (within the blues scale).

But the G would normally be GBbD, but there is no Bb in the scale??

Same for A: should be A C E, but no E in the blues scale.

How to solve this?

TNX
Dave

Song is in D. Is the G you want to play a chord change? Same for the A = is this a change to the A chord, or are you wanting to arpeggiate all of these notes while droning/pedaling in D?

If droning maybe try arpeggiating with DFA, GCD (sus), ACD (sus). Or GDF (7th, no 3rd) and ACG (3rd and 7th, no 5th)
If they are chord changes, maybe change to each blues scale with the root of the new chord = G blues over G chord, A blues over A chord.