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10-11-2004, 11:58 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Oshkosh, WI USA | |
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by peteroberts another cheesehead! I was born in Racine  | On wisconsin man... chalk another one up for the cheeseheads. Born in muskego and moved here to oshkosh 17 years ago |
10-12-2004, 03:15 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA (finally!) | | | marineman, I think you pretty much hit it on the head with your last statement (not the cheesehead one!). I have been struggling for a long time on such matters; I play guitar and some drums as well as bass plus I have been trying to diversify stylistically. I really fell in love with jazz once I got hip to it, I mean really hip, where I started studying it. I couldn't get enough, and I almost abandoned rock music entirely for pretty close to 5 years. I really wanted to be a jazz player.
Trouble was, I didn't think I ever really played jazz convincingly, I mean, I could walk and even throw down a good solo, but I just didn't *feel* it like I did rock music.
'Course, 5 years vs 20 years just didn't stack up.
I've kinda decided it all comes down to your roots. Right? |
10-12-2004, 09:37 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Mateo CA | | | Peteroberts:
Good for you!!
I had same problem with the last rock band. Could play it and get people dancing and partyin'. But I could not mentally
get in the "mindset". I still like use feedback with rock solos tho'.
And started playing rock before jazz but older jazz folks would be more supportive and encourage me to play jazz when I was learning to play. (many years ago).
So in the last 8 years or more I started to focus on jazz now
on upright & some electric. |
10-13-2004, 06:48 AM
|  | Now With More Metal! Moderator | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Harte fjord, CT | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Matt Till |
I thought all rock was based on 4 letters? You know, K, C, U, & F although maybe not in that particular order.
pacman,
Those are some heady audition requirements!  I was all excited to learn about modifying a v-7 chord to be V7b9b13 in order to create a stronger sense of resolution when playing a 2-5-1 in a minor scale and thought I was getting somewhere. Seems like every time I learn one piece of jazz theory, 10 more pop up. Oh well, back to the shed for me! |
10-13-2004, 10:39 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brixton, South London | | | Here's a good example of a muso bucking the trend of rockers who struggle to switch to jazz - Alex Skolnik - who most of us Manring fans will know from Thonk - he's done an album of 1970s rock songs, as acoustic jazz tunes with a trio, and apparently it really, er, rocks. check the review <a href=http://www.bassinside.com/2002/december/cdreview.htm>here</a>
The other guitarist to mention is Steve Morse, and Mike Stern definitely dgoes mental for the overdrive when he goes into one of his blues blow-outs, even Metheny does a pretty sweet job of out nu-metal-ing some nu-metal on 'Roots Of Coincidence' on Imaginary Day - that get's seriously heavy.
Bass-wise I think Sheehan does some good stuff with Niacin, and there's always Geddy, but I think that's all I can think of in terms of rockers who can jazz. Personally I love rocking out but it's like anything that you do for a long time, that is fast and loud - it kind of leaves you numb. A little heavy-sh** in the right time and place, goes a long way.
Last edited by urb_munki : 10-13-2004 at 10:51 AM.
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10-13-2004, 11:09 AM
|  | I Know Nothing | | Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Columbia River Gorge, WA. | | | Yes, they can.
Jack Bruce, Charlie Watts, Ginger Baker, Bill Bruford, Billy Cobham, John Scofield, Mike Stern, Steve Morse, and Alphonso Johnson all show that, IMHO. |
10-13-2004, 12:15 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA (finally!) | | Quote: |
Metheny does a pretty sweet job of out nu-metal-ing some nu-metal on 'Roots Of Coincidence' on Imaginary Day
| sorry, but as much as I love Pat, I thought that attempt was lame. |
10-14-2004, 08:12 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: UK | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Pacman Con, I tend to buy that. Most jazzers can rock. Few rockers can play jazz.
That's should tick some people off.... | It shouldnt really tick anybody off! Jazz IS more complex and harder to play than rock. For 99.9% of people it involves knowing theory. Generally speaking, rock is a lot easier and you dont have to know bugger all theory to play it convincingly. That's a fact.
The way I see it, whatever music you play, you have to feel it and you have to get what's it's about. It's not a question of whether a person can technically play it or not.
It's like that 'faking it' program: could a rocker and jazzer of equal technical skill, experience and ability, fool each others discerning audience?
I'd say yes, but they'd have to work at it. They'd each have to listen to each others genre and they'd have to get inside what the music is about. Without preparation I dont think a jazzer could get up on stage and rock any more than a rocker could play a convincing jazz solo.
To play ANY style convincingly you have to get into it.
A singer friend of mine recently joined a jazz-funk band. They recorded a demo version of 'Dont You Worry 'Bout A Thing' and she was lamenting the fact that she didn't do a very good job on the recording. I reminded her that she was a white middle-class mother of 3, rather than a blind black soul singer originating from the motown era...
While I think crossing genres is a great thing, I encourage my students to listen to every kind of music and to learn parts form any record they like, vocal parts, b'lines rhythms, anything... I also think it can often be better to do what you do to the best of your ablity rather than try to be a jack of all trades and end up a master of none.
Waffle over!
Last edited by Howard K : 10-14-2004 at 08:18 AM.
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10-14-2004, 10:21 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Howard K ...better to do what you do to the best of your ablity rather than try to be a jack of all trades and end up a master of none. | Like my Dad says: "to know a little about everything, and lot about NUTHIN!"
Joe |
10-14-2004, 10:56 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: West Side SA | | | if you notice, one of my favorite drummers is in this list from Allmusic.com - this is the studio musician list for the latest Mega Death album:
Tim Akers Keyboards, Musician
Jesse Amend Assistant
Adam Ayan Mastering
Jeff Balding Producer, Engineer, Mixing
David Bryant Engineer, Assistant
Vinnie Colaiuta Drums, Musician
Eric Darken Percussion, Musician
Michael Davis Sound Effects, Musician
Lance Dean Vocals, Assistant, Musician
Mike "Frog" Griffith Production Coordination
Jed Hackett Engineer, Digital Editing, Assistant
Mark Hagen Digital Editing
Scott Harrison Vocals, Musician
Charles Judge Keyboards, Musician
Scott Kidd Assistant
Mike Learn Cover Art
Celeste Amber Montague Voices
Dave Mustaine Guitar, Guitar (Rhythm), Vocals, Producer, Engineer, Cover Art Concept, Soloist, Musician
Justis Mustaine Musician, Spoken Word
Ralph Patlan Vocals, Voices, Assistant, Musician
Chris Poland Guitar, Soloist, Fills, Musician
Chris Rodriguez Vocals (bckgr), Musician
John Saylor Engineer
Jimmie Lee Sloas Guitar (Bass), Musician
Bob Venables Vocals, Musician
Jonathan Yudkin Banjo, Strings, Musician
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Mark Wilson is the greatest
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10-14-2004, 03:03 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Connecticut, U.S. | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Howard K
The way I see it, whatever music you play, you have to feel it and you have to get what's it's about. It's not a question of whether a person can technically play it or not.
|  For such a general question to comment on I think that sums it up rather nicely. 
__________________
Its not what you have, its how you use it...... |
10-14-2004, 06:41 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA (finally!) | | Quote: |
...better to do what you do to the best of your ablity rather than try to be a jack of all trades and end up a master of none.
| right on! It took me a while to realize that. | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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