Can You Trust Your Tone?

Fergie Fulton · #1 12-10-2008, 01:59 AM

Human Hearing has a range of 20-20.000 Hertz in a young healthy human. By the time you have reached you early twenties you have a range of 20-17.000 or 18.000 Hertz. By the time you reach middle age the range is about 20-12.000 or 14.0000 Hertz. Female hearing does not lose the top end frequencies as quickly as male hearing. A woman can generaly retain the higher end of the frequencies that we can hear longer than a man.

We lose the ability to hear and judge the tone we like. The tone we like as teenagers all the way through our lives if we remain healthy, always has the top end of the frequency being lost.

Are what we are hearing what other people are hearing and can we trust our tone?

daffy · #2 12-10-2008, 03:27 AM

The important thing to note is that the lower end of the frequency spectrum stays good, and it's only the top end that we males lose.

So really this is adaptation at its best - the human body is just excluding those annoying frequencies guitards make and focusing on the real stuff!!

Fergie Fulton · #3 12-10-2008, 12:41 PM

The important part is "healthy young male". A standard 7 band graphic for bass will stop about 10Khz only 3khz away from a healthy male would expect to end up.....and assuming that the healthy male has not been exposed to loud frequences such a playing in a band.

ColdSteelRain · #4 12-10-2008, 12:50 PM

What you hear and what anyone else hears is guaranteed to be different. Room acoustics and position of the listener are likely to have much more impact than hearing loss above 12kHz.

Can you trust your tone? Well, yes, you don't really have any options. You hear what you hear, and you can't really hear what someone else hears.

paganjack · #5 12-10-2008, 01:00 PM

probably best to cut off your ears so the sound can get in easier without those pesky lobes in the way to dampen it.

joke, joke.

seriously though, so what if your hearing frequency changes as you age? so does everything else and there isn't a lot you can do to stop it, but you might be able to slow it down if you behave.

iplaybassguitar · #6 12-10-2008, 01:05 PM

im only 19, and have probably already damaged my ears permanently. ive been to a lot of concerts, played in a lot of loud bands, listened to music very loud in my friend's cars, and listened to lots of loud music on headphones. I am starting to be more careful about what levels i expose myself to, as i am now in school for music and audio production, and realize the value of my hearing in my future.
the OP brings up a good point though i think. if as we age, and damage our hearing, or lose it natrually, we lose the ability not only to hear in terms of volume(things get quieter), but our percieved frequency range is smaller(less highs). so if you cant hear high frequencies, as well or at all, you are likely to turn them up higher in the mix, which to you might sound fine, but to someone with better hearing, you might sound overly trebly.
i dont know to what extent this would happen, and how noticeable it might be, but i would expect that most people who have this damaged hearing would be wise or experienced enough to realize what amount of high frequencies would sound too much.

kraigo · #7 12-10-2008, 01:17 PM

Bass pretty much cuts off by 7KHz or so anyway. Of course you should take care of your ears, but the hearing loss (like earplugs) will help cut back the "clutter" from guitars and cymbals and actually help you hear yourself better.

"Can I trust my tone?" Of course I can - I play a P-Bass!

KO

Fergie Fulton · #8 12-10-2008, 01:32 PM

iplaybassguitar raises the point what if those your are playing to can't take the sound you using because it is cutting their heads off leave, or move to the back. It might sound fine to you but how can you tell? In the Uk if you watch a band in a pub or club that are older, there appears a magic semi circle that appears in front of a band, a little no go area, could that be because that the sound is topend heavy?

StyleOverShow · #9 12-10-2008, 01:41 PM

As a player with over 40 years experience of amplified music, I know that I've lost ranges of hearing. The most complicated of sound environs, like a noisy restaurant or bar present problems to me participating in conversations. It just gets lost in the background and I'm thinking about learning to read lips.

But on stage, it isn't so much a problem in terms of pitch and tone. There are more variables with the room's acoustics and making adjustments on the fly to maintain an 'acceptable bass tone' than actual hearing problems. Its pretty loud, even with the jazz gigs.

Finally, wish I would have worn ear plugs and maybe I'll get some this X-mas.

JimmyM · #10 12-10-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Human Hearing has a range of 20-20.000 Hertz in a young healthy human. By the time you have reached you early twenties you have a range of 20-17.000 or 18.000 Hertz. By the time you reach middle age the range is about 20-12.000 or 14.0000 Hertz. Female hearing does not lose the top end frequencies as quickly as male hearing. A woman can generaly retain the higher end of the frequencies that we can hear longer than a man.

We lose the ability to hear and judge the tone we like. The tone we like as teenagers all the way through our lives if we remain healthy, always has the top end of the frequency being lost.

Are what we are hearing what other people are hearing and can we trust our tone?

That's why when I record, I always reference it on several different systems and against albums I'm familiar with. I think my hearing is still pretty good, but I still want and need backup.

Jake of Bass · #11 12-10-2008, 09:51 PM

I've heard different figures for top end hearing ranges than those posted in the thread.

I was taught in a few music classes that a young healthy human can hear as high as 25k, and that by the time we're adults it's dropped to around 20k. By the time we're past retirement the average is around 14k.

This isn't to say you shouldn't protect your hearing any less, but it is something audio teachers taught me so I'm questioning the accuracy of those statistics a little.

Fergie Fulton · #12 12-11-2008, 02:07 AM

What all statistics support is that hearing loss is a fact as we age.
There will be variations on the theme but its the conclusion we are intersted in. In a hearing test you wear head phones and are played a series of beeps at different frequencies and intervals. When you hear the beep you press a button you have held on your hand. The beeps and the button presses are then matched to see what ones you heard and missed. I have lost top end as expected but the interesting one was at the other end. I heard two beeps at the bottom if the spectum which i should not. I was told that i must have felt them rather than of heard them.

debassr · #13 12-11-2008, 02:32 AM

What?

theunknowndude · #14 12-11-2008, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

What all statistics support is that hearing loss is a fact as we age.
There will be variations on the theme but its the conclusion we are intersted in. In a hearing test you wear head phones and are played a series of beeps at different frequencies and intervals. When you hear the beep you press a button you have held on your hand. The beeps and the button presses are then matched to see what ones you heard and missed. I have lost top end as expected but the interesting one was at the other end. I heard two beeps at the bottom if the spectum which i should not. I was told that i must have felt them rather than of heard them.

which test did you do though? the one with headphones over your lobes or the ones with the little thing they put behind your ear onto the bone? I suffer from loss of high end and from tablets I took when I was younger plus have tinitus,... so high end for me = shocking,... its gotten to the point where I can't hear the 'beeps' from the keytone of my mobile phone... I wear one hearing aid at work on my right ear as I have a real trouble with higher pitched voices... I'm now trying VERY hard to not damage my hearing further,... pretty hard playing in a metal band with a very loud drummer,... and in the practice room im usually right near him

brothertupelo · #15 12-11-2008, 02:44 AM

i thought i could trust my tone, but then i found out it was embezzling from me.

Fergie Fulton · #16 12-11-2008, 03:06 AM

I had the standard test in the UK with the headphones only. They test each side of your hearing seprately, test all of the left, then the right. Point of interest, i was not sure if i did hear the last two low beeps i pressed for but i had a feeling i heard or felt something.

sonic assassin · #17 12-11-2008, 03:12 AM

as an engineer, its imperative that i preserve that high end response. as a bass player, i dont need much over 6khz. and thats for MIXING bass, i dont want to hear much above 3k. no flick. no crack. no air. just grind and controlled rumble

ear plugs at shows are the way to go. even if your friends make fun of you. on stage? not a chance. it screws up any chance of singing on key and it kills the mood. in-ear monitors are a god send, but for us cheap players, not gonna happen.

Jake of Bass · #18 12-11-2008, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

What all statistics support is that hearing loss is a fact as we age.

Oh yeah for sure, I was just being semantic. I like to think I've still got a bit of top end left...

kraigo · #19 12-11-2008, 07:53 AM

As a bassist, I love plugs. They help me hear more bass while still turning down. Volume complaints are much less of an issue.

As a drummer, plugs are horrible. I start unconsciously hitting harder to make up for the decreased high end. I won't subject others to that (if I'm not having to put up with it, why should anyone else?), so earplugs are no good. I'd love to try in-ears, but I'd have to have an overhead mic where I could control the levels into my monitors.

KO

Phalex · #20 12-11-2008, 07:58 AM

I trust my sound guy. He's in control of my tone. So, yes, I trust it absolutely.