Can't get harmonics on 6th and 13th Fret!

la_sombra · #1 05-15-2008, 09:13 AM

Hey Guys,

I'm a complete newbie both to TalkBass and to bass playing. I decided to splash out on an Ibanez SR1005EFM and she's great. My problem is that I'm trying to play "Portrait of Tracy" and I cannot get the harmonics at the 6th and 13th fret to ring. In the case of the 6th fret (all strings) I hear the harmonics as clear as a bell on the 5th and the 7th fret. So, what would you suggest? I'm at a loss at what to do so before raising the action or changing strings, I thought I'd get some expert advice first.

Thanks for reading

jsingles · #2 05-15-2008, 09:16 AM

move around a bit, those arent necessarily RIGHT on the fret, just like the 3rd fret harmonics are more like 3 and 1/4 fret.

check your EQ (play with the mids, not so much the highs)

PRACTICE.. portrait of tracy takes a lot of it, the smoother you get at it, ths stronger your harmonics will come out

OH and make sure you are soloing on the bridge pickup.

MarkTAW · #3 05-15-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_sombra

Hey Guys,

I'm a complete newbie both to TalkBass and to bass playing. I decided to splash out on an Ibanez SR1005EFM and she's great. My problem is that I'm trying to play "Portrait of Tracy" and I cannot get the harmonics at the 6th and 13th fret to ring. In the case of the 6th fret (all strings) I hear the harmonics as clear as a bell on the 5th and the 7th fret. So, what would you suggest? I'm at a loss at what to do so before raising the action or changing strings, I thought I'd get some expert advice first.

Thanks for reading

the 12th, 7th and 5th fret are very good harmonic nodes, being 1/2, 1/3 and 1/4 of the string respectively.

I don't know what note / string fraction / overtone is revealed by playing a harmonic at the 6th fret, but as the other poster mentioned - it may not be exactly above the 6th fret.

It may also be an extremely weak harmonic - too high in the overtone series to reproduce reliably. Some instruments "sing" more than others when it comes to harmonics. Pickup location too can affect what harmonics come through the amp. There's a lot of things to consider when playing harmonics.

Find out what note it is & find another (perhaps artificial) harmonic to play in that place.

Mushroo · #4 05-15-2008, 09:25 AM

Hi La Sombra,

There aren't any natural harmonics at the 6th or 13th frets (at least not useful ones). A lot of the notes in PoT are artificial harmonics that require 2 fingers to play. If you give us a measure number of the specific notes you're stuck on, we might be able to give you some tips. PoT is an awesome piece, but it does have a lot of techniques that are challenging even to advanced players. So be patient learning it, take your time and don't get discouraged if it takes a while. I still can't play the last chord, and I've been working on it for over 15 years!

ps there are a few threads already about playing PoT, check out Portrait of Tracy

JFace · #5 05-15-2008, 09:26 AM

I would say it might be your pickups. I have noticed this situation with a lot of basses, and surprisingly this harmonic seems to ring out the most on your simple, passive basses, most notably a Fender (duh). I've noticed the harmonics like to ring with the use of low mids, and maybe a little bit of high mids (800-1000 Hz). Cut the low end to reduce the finger thud. It's a tough one, so good luck.

didier · #6 05-15-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_sombra

Hey Guys,

I'm a complete newbie both to TalkBass and to bass playing...

welcome to bass playing....

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_sombra

My problem is that I'm trying to play "Portrait of Tracy" ...

that is AMBITIOUS for a "complete newbie." It takes most people at least a couple of months to master that song

Kidding aside... sounds like you are already doing pretty great. Good luck

jsingles · #7 05-15-2008, 09:32 AM

I still can't play the last chord either.. i usually just cheat and dont play the note on the A string lol

la_sombra · #8 05-15-2008, 09:41 AM

WOW! You guys are great. I hardly had time enough to complete a round of Mario Kart Wii and I already have so much expert advice to digest.

I forgot to mention that I am playing on the bridge pickup. Thanks for reminding me, jsingles. JFace, I'm tweaking the midranges as we speak.

didier, thanks for the warm welcome. Well, I'm going to carry on beating my head against the wall but please keep the advice coming. I can only learn from you guys.

-la_sombra

jsingles · #9 05-15-2008, 09:48 AM

mario cart is friggen awesome

fullrangebass · #10 05-15-2008, 09:48 AM

The 6th fret harmonic lies a little behind the 6th fret. As far as the 13th fret I need to get my bass and check out the exact position

JustOpenYourMind · #11 05-15-2008, 10:36 AM

If I remember correctly (I could be wtong I don't have my bass with me right now), in portrait of tracy the only 6th fret harmonic I can think of is the false harmonic in the main melody. You have to fret the second fret on the A string with your index and strech your hand so that your pinkie rests on the string just touching the string above the 6th fret (like playing a normal harmonic) and then pluck the string. For the 13th fret, it is the same thing, you have the fret the 9th fret with your index and touch the string with your pinkie at the 13th fret and pluck to get the harmonic in the song.

If you are using the tab, wich I assume you do since you said you were a beginner, both harmonic are respectivly written 2&6 and 9&13 the first number is where you fret the string and the second is where you play the harmonic.

If you search youtube for videos of people playing the song, you'll see how to do it correctly.

MarkTAW · #12 05-15-2008, 10:37 AM

There's supposed to be a b7 just behind the 6th fret - my guess is it would be pretty weak. Being the 7th overtone representing 1/7 of the string, it's not going to sing as well as the others.

See the extremely large chart towards the bottom of that page for exact locations.

fullrangebass · #13 05-15-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

There's supposed to be a b7 just behind the 6th fret - my guess is it would be pretty weak. Being the 7th overtone representing 1/7 of the string, it's not going to sing as well as the others.

See the extremely large chart towards the bottom of that page for exact locations.

If you take it easy it really sings. If you use too much of an attack, then the 6th fret harmonic will sound weaker compared with the rest of "loud" harmonics

JustOpenYourMind · #14 05-15-2008, 11:00 AM

I just checked and there are some 6th fret harmonic, but no 13th in the song, however like I said, There are two false harmonics in the song using those frets.

la_sombra · #15 05-15-2008, 02:39 PM

Hi JustOpenYourMind,

Eureka. Actually, I wasn't using the tab. I just downloaded it as saw what you meant. On the "A" string it says 2(6) meaning, like you said, to fret at the second fret and to rest your pinkie on the 6th fret. The final chord is a 9(13) played on the A,D & G string.

Okay, so I guess you can all imagine what I'm going to ask this time: are there any exercises I can perform in order to perform the reach from the second fret to the sixth. I can **just** about make it but not at playing speed. I find the 9(13) a little easier although only if I play it one-string-at-a-time, as it were. to play the chord itself is beyond me right now. So, in a nutshell, what exercises can I perform to improve my dexterity?

MarkTAW · #16 05-15-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_sombra

Hi JustOpenYourMind,

Eureka. Actually, I wasn't using the tab. I just downloaded it as saw what you meant. On the "A" string it says 2(6) meaning, like you said, to fret at the second fret and to rest your pinkie on the 6th fret. The final chord is a 9(13) played on the A,D & G string.

Okay, so I guess you can all imagine what I'm going to ask this time: are there any exercises I can perform in order to perform the reach from the second fret to the sixth. I can **just** about make it but not at playing speed. I find the 9(13) a little easier although only if I play it one-string-at-a-time, as it were. to play the chord itself is beyond me right now. So, in a nutshell, what exercises can I perform to improve my dexterity?

No no, you don't touch the string with your pinky, you touch it with your right hand thumb. Google for videos of "artificial harmonics" or "pinch harmonics" for the bass for examples.

Mushroo · #17 05-15-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

No no, you don't touch the string with your pinky, you touch it with your right hand thumb. Google for videos of "artificial harmonics" or "pinch harmonics" for the bass for examples.

Actually, I am 51% sure Jaco used his left-hand pinky... he had pretty big hands... plus the final chord is 3 notes at once... I don't have 3 thumbs

But yes, I, like you, "cheat" and use my right-hand thumb! (and arpeggiate the final chord, though sometimes I will use a forceful right-hand tap at the 13th fret to make them ring all at once).

Audiophage · #18 05-15-2008, 08:33 PM

Your bass is obviously broken, you need a more expensive one.

MarkTAW · #19 05-15-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroo

Actually, I am 51% sure Jaco used his left-hand pinky... he had pretty big hands... plus the final chord is 3 notes at once... I don't have 3 thumbs

Well that's your problem isn't it. I guess not everyone has the luck I have - I'm all thumbs.

Bruce Lindfield · #20 05-16-2008, 03:03 AM

Jaco used his thumb as the node for artificial harmonics. He demonstrated this on video and talked about it in interviews.

The thing about harmonics is that frets have nothing to do with it - it is all about subdividing effective or "working" string length! The more accurate you are with hitting these points (not frets!) the more the harmonic(s) will ring out!