Carpal Tunnel Syndrome

[captain bass]

I'm a bit worried about this, I used to play with my forearm resting on the top of the bass and my wrist bent almost 90 degrees.

I've now modified this so my elbow is raised and not touching the top of the bass, this in turn totally straightens my wrist and it stays straight, apart from when playing the G string and anchoring on the E, this results in a slight bend but nothing like a 90 degree bend, more like 20-40 degrees approx.

Am I doing enough to stay safe from this terrible affliction?

Or am I worrying about nothing?

Anybody got anything to say about this topic?

Thanks.

[Mr. Mig]

It is important to learn proper posture. Not just the plucking hand, but the fretting hand as well. I know a few bass players who got CTS by not having the right posture.

[VroomVroom]

I think you're wise to take precautions, ultimately reaching for a playing position that minimizes angles, but also maintains proper posture and comfort.

Long ago I subscribed to the notion of wearing my instrument pretty high. Accordingly, my left wrist angle is almost always straight. The compromise is in my right hand/wrist, but I also comfortably mitigate that with my elbow, as well as the frequency in which I change plucking technique - i.e palm mute & slap.

I don't think you're worrying too much, but the key, IMO/IME, is finding the proper balance. Good luck with your efforts...

[SteveMcB]

Do you actually have CTS, or are you just worried it might develop?

Optimising your posture is a great idea, and there are things you can do if you develop it.

Steve

[NOVAX]

I suffered Colle's fractures to both wrists....I know CTS. When I start getting the pins
and needles I find that movement, motion and loosely shaking out the hands helps the
chi and blood moving, if only for the moment. In extreme situations it's hot water soak
and/or an ice bucket dunk. I plan on playing for the rest of my life, whether the claws
are stiff or not. Humans have outstanding abilities to compensate. Rock on....

[4Mal]

keep your self stretched - that is to say, stretch, a lot! For bass playing it's really your entire upper body - for walking around - it's the lower. Do the whole enchilada. It's way easier to stay stretched than it is to get stretched - believe me ...

[captain bass]

Nice feedback.

I haven't got CTS, but couldn't imagine anything worse happening (within reason).

I've been practicing this 'elbows up' technique the last hour and it seems to be getting easier, there is hardly any bend in my right wrist at all, plus, comparing it to the old 'bent' style it seems much easier and faster, it feels much more strained and forced the old way. The whole arm seems to work better when straight from the elbow to the fingers, IMHO.

I hope I can keep this posture up for an hour at a time, I suppose it's just training your shoulder and upper arm, I can feel the strain, good stamina exercise though.

[Chris K]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU
Check it out.

[alfredpunkjazz]

Everytime I see someone with its wrist doing that classic 90 degree bend I kinda get pains... ha ha ha, I'm not joking, there are more natural positions for playing your bass, and playing it up there in the chest does not help at all, trust me, you can complain about your left hand but there's always a more vertical array that can be used and it is perfectly safe... eventhough is looked down by most people.

[mndean]

I had CTS in my fretting hand, got surgery and still suffer occasional bouts of pain, maybe twice a year. It's better not to ever get CTS, and bass players can do a lot to avoid hand positions that will cause such nerve irritation and swelling. Now I didn't get my CTS from bass playing, but from repetitive stress of my wrist at work which is something that's harder to avoid. In my plucking hand, I have a disorder called cupidal tunnel syndrome which is irritation where the nerve runs through the elbow area. I haven't addressed that and won't (the CTS surgery itself was extremely painful and disabling to me for nearly a year) as the side effects of cupidal tunnel surgery are more severe (if done wrong, it can cause part of your face to be paralyzed, among other things), so I live with it by not working at the same job where the injuries developed. Bass playing doesn't seem to bother my right hand at all, so I'm comfortable with it. I've adapted my hand position so it irritates my wrist as little as possible and it's helping. Just remember to find positions that don't cause pain and aren't bending your wrist severely while you pluck or fret.

[4Mal]

Long as your on the elbow topic, Lateral Epicondylitis is no joke either ... I've been up close and personal and it is a serious pain in the elbow ... I got it largely from playing a single cut-away hollow body that made me reach way the heck out to the nut. I had to sell the bass and take near 3 months off. PT session twice a week.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by captain bass

Nice feedback.

I haven't got CTS, but couldn't imagine anything worse happening (within reason).

I've been practicing this 'elbows up' technique the last hour and it seems to be getting easier, there is hardly any bend in my right wrist at all, plus, comparing it to the old 'bent' style it seems much easier and faster, it feels much more strained and forced the old way. The whole arm seems to work better when straight from the elbow to the fingers, IMHO.

I hope I can keep this posture up for an hour at a time, I suppose it's just training your shoulder and upper arm, I can feel the strain, good stamina exercise though.

You can relax a little, dude

Resting the forearm isn't inherently bad. What's bad is if you get pain when you play. But if you're not getting any pain or numbness or discomfort, you're in the clear. A major part of good technique staying relaxed, though, so try to maintain a relaxed technique as much as possible.

[Fergie Fulton]

You have to understand CTS and if you develop it, why it developed. It is day to day use of the hands in repeditive motion that is the main culprit but not always. As a bass player you are putting more strain on your hands than they were designed for. Day today life is enough to develop CTS, especially now a days with the range of devices we have at our fingertips to use, like the keyboard we are all typing on now.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.12/mccarthy.html

Wrist angle is a subjective point as we are all capable of different degrees of it, with different results. CTS is in the palm of the hand, thats where the Carpel tunnel will pinch the Median nerve due to the swelling of the tendons that run through it with the Median nerve. If you look at the palm of a hand flat, then move your thumb over an touch the tip of your little finger, the valley that is created is the Carpal Tunnel.

The release surgury that if preformed cuts the Transverse Carpal Ligiment, which is innocent in all this but can give relief.
Think on it like this,
9 hoses (the ligiments), with a sponge tube (the median nerve) held together by a strap (the transverse carpal ligiment). If we let water run through the hoses they expand with the water pressure. If we look at the hoses as they pass through the strap we see there is limited room for expansion unlike the rest of the hoses. The hoses and the sponge tube can bend and twist with ease. But if we increase the pressure, the hoses will get harder as they expand. Eventually the hoses will crush the sponge because the strap does not allow for expansion. So to relieve the pressure the strap is cut and the sponge is now free again.

So to guard against CTS and limit its effect on you you need to understand how you can reduce the odds, but you can never totaly eliminate them because of day to day life.

The most effective way is to stretch as gabrieljosh suggests to keep the hands and forarms supple. Also as Jimmy says stay relaxed, that is one of the biggest problems i see is players tense when they play.
Breathing is the cure for tension LOL . That sounds obvious but it is lateral breathing you want to develop as used in Pilates as it has benifits to your posture in the upper body as well.

http://www.healthmattersinside.com/l...ps-in-pilates/

Its your own job to read your own body, not what others say. Genral rules
If it hurts don't do it and see a medical profesional.
If it works for you use it
Be honest in you abilites
Sensible practice and good teacher.

Be carefull you don't develop another injury by trying to prevent CTS LOL

[pringlw]

Trying to minimize the bend in the wrist is always a good thing. I try to play "elbows up". I find it makes a big difference.

[unclejane]

I am one of those who can barely tolerate any bending in the wrists at all when I play. In my case the pain ends up on the other side, the back side of the wrist when I do the craning of the wrist thing. This is only in my fretting hand tho.

In fact, I may have to go back to the 4 string due to recently recurring problems with this in my left hand. Even my 5 string (L2500) I can only play seated and even then I still can't hang out on the B string as much as I want.

My L2000 with #8 neck (jazz dimensions) may be my only choice from now on if I want to play regularly.

So it might also be your bass - take a good look at how it fits you. Make sure you can play it without having to crank your wrists up into a pretzel. If not, get something else that you can

LS

[tpmiller08]

Everyone I know who has had CTS, said their hands go completely back to normal after a months rest post-surgery. Tendonitis...not so much.


CTS doesn't seem to be a career ending injury for bassists. Looks like it just slows u down during healing then BAMO, as good as new. I never had it though, so I really wouldn't know.

-Troy

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Chris K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU
Check it out.

Excellent. Also see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJ...eature=related

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

I'd also suggest you to get one of these if possible.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

I'd also suggest you to get one of these if possible.

Now thats what i call a great bass. Modern technology and ergonomics put to great use. great link.