Clank clank clank

[mactac]

OK, here's my problem:

whenever I rest my fingers on the strings (to mute the note, or just to help keep the groove) between notes, I get a gawdawful clank sound.

I'm not sure if it's the pickups distorting (probably not) or the strings hitting one of the frets somewhere on the neck.

this is especially evident when playing something syncopated.

for example:
www.orange-records.com/bass1/

take a listen.... all my mutes go "clank"

Before you say "your action is too low!"... it really isn't. maybe it's not quite set up right, but I have this problem no matter what my action is like... unless it's jamerson-high.

I realize that this is a poor technique issue, but I just can't seem to solve it.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot get this sorted out.

Any thoughts on:

- what I could possibly be doing with my action to sort it out other than just raising it (which doesn't work)

- how I can possibly train myself not to slap the strings, or do it differently (in fact I LIKE the percussive effect, but I just wish it wasn't so harsh sounding.... actually a tube amp solves this a bit because it saturates the highs a bit, but that's another story)

- you'll also hear in the demo that when I hit notes, i pluck down towards the bass instead of parallel.... which causes the same clank when actually playing the notes... (which seems to be 2 separate problems).. i simply cannot train myself to not do this.... how can I help this?

I've tried going to take a lesson to get this sorted out & the teacher said everything sounded fine to him. I think he's got wooden ears.

HELP!

[mactac]

I should also mention that I've been playing bass for 15 yrs & doing my own setups for just as long.

this problem has made it difficult for me to use a good quality amp (ie one that you can hear the highs with!)

[mactac]

Ok Im pretty sure what your doing accidentally is incorporating that slap technique where you smack the strings off the frets using your fretting hand to make it sound like your slapping faster. This happens to me sometimes on my double bass since the action is quite low (to make it a bit easier starting out) I over come it by simply focusing on my hand as it comes back on the string to mute it. I basically focus on bringing my hand back down on the strings with less force.

ok, well you had my thinking so I had to go check, and no, that's not what it is.. it's entirely right hand that's causing it. thanks for the good idea though !

raising my volume to force me to use a softer touch doesn't quite work, because i play that way anyways, just louder

[galore]

Hi. I actually didn't have that kind of a problem, but my technique (right hand) was pretty bad too till recent. I had someone to show me the proper use of right hand, so that the same tone (for example) sound the same (volume, depth, etc.) on all strings. I suggest you to get a professional who will teach you how to use your right hand properly.

Other option might be some kind of a notch filter or maybe EL distressor - they say it has a feature which reduces the amount of this "clanking". I am not sure though, it's what I've read on web.

[mactac]

Originally Posted by galore

Hi. I actually didn't have that kind of a problem, but my technique (right hand) was pretty bad too till recent. I had someone to show me the proper use of right hand, so that the same tone (for example) sound the same (volume, depth, etc.) on all strings. I suggest you to get a professional who will teach you how to use your right hand properly.

ya, as I mentioned, I tried that... no help. there are very few good bass teachers arounf here, so that's why I was reaching out to the TB community.

Other option might be some kind of a notch filter or maybe EL distressor - they say it has a feature which reduces the amount of this "clanking". I am not sure though, it's what I've read on web.

nah, i don't want to eq it to get rid of the clank, i'll have to take a ton of frq's out. I need to clean up what I'm doing somehow & fix the problem at the source rather than try to band-aid it.

also, I had a distressor for quite some time - it's a compressor... it actually makes what I'm hearing worse

thanks for the advice!

[chaosMK]

Do you get this sound when you use other basses?

[mactac]

yep, some more, some less...

[chaosMK]

It sounds like you are using a pretty heavy hand, almost jamming the strings down as opposed to gliding across them.

Maybe higher tension strings (DR Lo-riders) or a longer scale bass would help if you like playing that way.

[chadds]

Have a pro set up your bass. Realize that it's like having a pro racing team set up your car and that you may have to accept the "way". Have them do one of your basses. Then play only that one. Perhaps the combination of your own setups and technique have limited your expression. Your technique may be accommodating your setups or vice versa. It's kinda of like breaking a habit so force yourself to play that one bass for a while and see if it helps.
Folks have found that their creativity has blossomed when they've rearranged their studio or practice or writing space.

[Unrepresented]

They sound like ghost notes only with tempo issues.

Why not just clean up the tempo issue and leave them in?

[dinghy]

I think what's happening is you're plucking down, not horizontally(in comparison to the bass.) When you pluck horizontally, the strings resonate parallel to the fretboard, but when you pluck down towards the bass, they hit the frets.

[nastyn8c]

Originally Posted by chaosMK

It sounds like you are using a pretty heavy hand, almost jamming the strings down as opposed to gliding across them.

+1

I used to have similar problems (not as bad as what you're describing). Focusing on playing lighter was the cure.

[Yngwie 4String]

I find myself doing this when I want to play loud. Just turn up your amp a bit more, and use a lighter right hand touch.just grace the top of the strings with your fingers. If this doesn t work try a pick.

[Rattlehead]

Hi.

I listened to your recording and can say that I had the exact same problem. The sound you're hearing is of the strings hitting the frets. As has been mentioned, this is because you're plucking towards the bass (ie towards the pickups), rather than upwards (towards the top of the bass).

Some people, like myself, kill themselves to get rid of this. It has taken me forever to get rid of it, and I'm still not really sure if I know what I'm doing in terms of every aspect of my technique, but I can avoid this clacking sound (sometimes I use it on purpose just for fun - gives a really aggressive sound).

Others, including notable bass players, just ignore it, or use it to their advantage. My knowledge of bass players is very limited, but I know that in metal, Steve Harris of Iron Maiden (I think he uses flatwound strings) and Alex Webster of Cannible Corpse, two very famous bassists, incorporate this into their playing style.

If you want to get rid of it, try playing upwards like I said (be sure to start VERY slow and NEVER to increase speed until you're doing it the way you want without any difficulty). The idea is that your fingers should never be straight, but rather "curved" towards the strings. Your hand should be in a position as if you were holding a tennis ball. This is hard and will take very long, especially if you're used to playing with your hand wide open (with straight fingers).

In my opinion, though, playing consistently with the "clack" sound is even harder to do, since a very slight difference in plucking power makes a huge difference in how loud the "clack" is. For example, listen to your recording again. The very first note you play (I assume this is an open E) has no clack sound, but the next time you play the open E it does.
Another bad thing about the "clacking" technique is that you only get the clack for notes you pluck with the right hand, so whenever you play a note and then hammer on or pull off to another note, that note sounds different (and is much quieter) because it doesn't get a "clack".

Hope this helps.

By the way you might want to check out the "Floating Thumb" stickied thread at the top of the forum, might as well learn two things if you're starting back from scratch anyway.
Of course, whatever works for you. A lot of bassists simply don't care, but I assume you do since you posted this.

[Rattlehead]

Just to clarify, you were right in the original post when you said the clack happens when you mute, but it also happens when you pluck notes. Listen closely. The mutes are more obvious because there's no note being played at the same, but you can hear a "clack" even when you play notes.

By the way, are you muting higher strings (note-wise, which means lower gravity-wise) with the right hand? The usual way to mute higher strings is with the fretting hand.

Cheers

[Basshole]

OK...a few things. Yes, you are making clacks with your left AND right hands.

How to minimize the right has already been mentioned. You have to attack the strings at an angle more parallel to the body...up, not "in".

For the left hand, let me give you a mental image that may help with your muting technique. You are bringing your hand down to mute. You are bringing it down rather hard, in fact. Stop that! Think of the muting in this way instead: rest your left hand on the strings pretty much all the time, in a muting position. Bring your hand UP off the strings when you want to actually sound notes.

I know that's essentially just semantics, but it's also conceptual, and it may make your hand operate more subtly.

Lastly, keep in mind that you're solo'd up. When you're playing with a drummer, in all likelyhood, most, if not all of these "clacks" will occur on the beat, and be somewhat masked by the drums. Furthermore, I think you're also subconsciously keeping time with your "clacks", in lieu of any metronomic or rhythmic accompaniment. You may fine that when playing with a drummer, you instinctively do it less.

[mactac]

Originally Posted by chadds

Have a pro set up your bass. Realize that it's like having a pro racing team set up your car and that you may have to accept the "way". Have them do one of your basses. Then play only that one. Perhaps the combination of your own setups and technique have limited your expression. Your technique may be accommodating your setups or vice versa. It's kinda of like breaking a habit so force yourself to play that one bass for a while and see if it helps.
Folks have found that their creativity has blossomed when they've rearranged their studio or practice or writing space.

I did bring it to a pro. his response was "I can't get it any better than you already have it"....

[mactac]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

They sound like ghost notes only with tempo issues.

Why not just clean up the tempo issue and leave them in?

cheap slag aside, no, they are not ghost notes. they sound terrible.

[mactac]

Originally Posted by dinghy

I think what's happening is you're plucking down, not horizontally(in comparison to the bass.) When you pluck horizontally, the strings resonate parallel to the fretboard, but when you pluck down towards the bass, they hit the frets.

well, i'm mostly talking about the mutes, not the notes. I do realize that I have poor technique for the notes as well, but also if you read further down, I've tried to do that, and can't... i need some exercises or something because as soon as I get in a band situation it all goes to hell

[mactac]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

Hi.

I listened to your recording and can say that I had the exact same problem. The sound you're hearing is of the strings hitting the frets.

yep, i know...

As has been mentioned, this is because you're plucking towards the bass (ie towards the pickups), rather than upwards (towards the top of the bass).

well, it not quite only that. I also have the problem with mutes as I mentioned.

I do realize that I pluck towards the bass (in fact I mentioned this in my OP), i KNOW what the problem is, I just can't seem to fix it. also, that doesn't solve the muting problem

Some people, like myself, kill themselves to get rid of this. It has taken me forever to get rid of it, and I'm still not really sure if I know what I'm doing in terms of every aspect of my technique, but I can avoid this clacking sound (sometimes I use it on purpose just for fun - gives a really aggressive sound).

THIS is the part i need help with... HOW.

Others, including notable bass players, just ignore it, or use it to their advantage. My knowledge of bass players is very limited, but I know that in metal, Steve Harris of Iron Maiden (I think he uses flatwound strings) and Alex Webster of Cannible Corpse, two very famous bassists, incorporate this into their playing style.

yep, i don't get it much if i use a tube amp... takes the edge off.... but like I said, I don't want to fix it with gear

By the way you might want to check out the "Floating Thumb" stickied thread at the top of the forum, might as well learn two things if you're starting back from scratch anyway.
Of course, whatever works for you. A lot of bassists simply don't care, but I assume you do since you posted this.

ya, i've actually tried that, hasn't helped so far... I think I just have 15 years of bad technique to counteract & I'm not quite sure how to do that