Classical Thump/Portrait of Tracy questions

[MirageBass]

1. How the HELL do you train your thumb to do Classical Thump? I pride myself on learning technical lines early on (YYZ a month in, hoping for Donna Lee before my 1-year playing anniversary), but Classical Thump is one video I looked at and said "I will never play this." Of course, I still hope to, but my thumb is really no good (only for some light slapping), I have no strength in it, and I also have the genetically-recessive trait of a perfectly straight thumb (most people, including Wooten and such, have the "Hitchhiker Thumb", which, when fully extended, curves back, which is very advantageous for thumb techniques). How can I get the strength and technique down to play CT?

2. Portrait of Tracy. I've been playing the line for two or so weeks now, and I think I have it down pretty decently, but my only concern is that damn final chord. Firstly, everyone I see playing it plays it a different point on the neck, and secondly, how do I get it to ring in the spine-chilling way Jaco did on the master track? Any little touches that would help?

Thanks in advance.

[the_fooj]

For Classical Thump there's no way you can get that down easily, especially if you're not used to slapping like that. Hell, it took me almost like three months to get down his style of slapping. But it was really beneficial for me because it has allowed me to play slapping stuff much more cleanly and accurately now.

Just work on those open-hammer-pluck things starting slowly and work your way up. Using a metronome is recommended. Btw, my thumb is perfectly straight too. I don't think it actually makes that much of a difference because I asked my bass teacher about it (he has that Hitchhiker's tumb too) and he said that it actually sometimes hinders him when slapping.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by MirageBass

how do I get it to ring in the spine-chilling way Jaco did on the master track?

If you listen to the recording carefully (a pair of headphones helps) you'll notice that the tape hiss/recording volume increases when the chord is about to be played. The input recording level was raised at that point to make the chord sound that loud (at least, that is easily noticed on the analog recording. Don't know if the remaster hides that or makes it even more noticeable). Having seen lots of videos of Jaco playing PoT live, I dare to say that he never played that chord on stage, at least in that context (bold statement, I know). He did it in his instructional video with great effort (because he was "outta shape").

Originally Posted by MirageBass

everyone I see playing it plays it a different point on the neck

That's hard to explain using words only, but I'll try to do my best. First, check this post (and the whole thread, for that matter) to make sure you understand how natural harmonics work and this one for a further explanation on artificial harmonics.

Now, let's take a look at the pitches make that infamous last chord: A G# on the G string, a D# on the D string, an A# on the A string, and an open E. That creates an Emaj7(b5) chord. At first, there are four ways to get those three top notes on the bass (lots of copy-paste below to save time, so please excuse the monotony):

1. (WHAT JACO DID): Stop the G, D and A strings at the 9th fret with your index finger. For the G string, that creates an E as the fundamental pitch. Then stretch your hand and touch the strings at the 13th fret with your pinky. That way, you get the fifth harmonic, which equals a major third plus two octaves above the fundamental. Since the fundamental on the G string is an E (you're stopping it at the 9th fret), then a major third is a G#. Now, the bass' standard tuning is in fourths, so think of the same relationship a fourth below for the D string and another fourth for the A string, and you'll get the other notes (D# and A#).

2. Stop the G, D and A string at the 6th fret with your index finger. Then stretch your hand and touch the strings at the 9th fret with your pinky. That way, you get the sixth harmonic, which equals a perfect fifth plus two octaves above the fundamental. Since the fundamental on the G string is a C# (you're stopping it at the 6th fret), then a perfect fifth is a G#. Now, the bass' standard tuning is in fourths, so think of the same relationship a fourth below for the D string and another fourth for the A string, and you'll get the other notes (D# and A#).

3. Stop the G, D and A string at the 3rd fret with your index finger. Then stretch your hand and touch the strings at a point between the 5th and 6th fret (slightly closer to the 6th) with your pinky. That way, you get the seventh harmonic, which equals a minor seventh plus two octaves above the fundamental. Since the fundamental on the G string is an A# (you're stopping it at the 3th fret), then a minor seventh is a G#. Now, the bass' standard tuning is in fourths, so think of the same relationship a fourth below for the D string and another fourth for the A string, and you'll get the other notes (D# and A#).

4. Stop the G, D and A string at the 1st fret with your index finger. Then stretch your hand and touch the strings at a point slightly after the 3rd fret with your pinky. That way, you get the eighth harmonic, which equals three full octaves above the fundamental. Since the fundamental on the G string is a G# (you're stopping it at the 1st fret), then you get the same pitch three octaves above. Now, the bass' standard tuning is in fourths, so think of the same relationship a fourth below for the D string and another fourth for the A string, and you'll get the other notes (D# and A#).

Each option has its advantages and disadvantages. The lower the harmonic (in order, I mean), the louder it rings. In that order of ideas, Jaco's choice is the best because you're dealing with the lowest order harmonic (5th) among all the options above => The loudest sound. But there's a catch: The lower the harmonic, the farther from the fundamental, so you need a bigger stretch to reach it. According to that, option #4 is the best since you're dealing with the highest order harmonic (8th) among all the choices above => Less strain for your left hand (not so much difference since there's a wider space between fretwires on the neck's lowest positions, but there IS a difference that definitely helps. Check it with a ruler).

I suggest you to try using one string at a time first, just to find the exact spots effortlessly. What makes that chord so difficult is that you must place your pinky exactly at the same spot on three strings at the same time. If the A string weren't used, it would be extremely easy. Option #3 is what seems to work best for me. Anyway, getting that chord to sound is still a matter of good luck to me. A final hint: Don't let the open E to sound very loud (pluck it gently).

Phew! Lots of words here. Hope they're not very confusing. Take your time reading and let me know.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Each option has its advantages and disadvantages. The lower the harmonic (in order, I mean), the louder it rings. In that order of ideas, Jaco's choice is the best because you're dealing with the lowest order harmonic (5th) among all the options above => The loudest sound. But there's a catch: The lower the harmonic, the farther from the fundamental, so you need a bigger stretch to reach it. According to that, option #4 is the best since you're dealing with the highest order harmonic (8th) among all the choices above => Less strain for your left hand (not so much difference since there's a wider space between fretwires on the neck's lowest positions, but there IS a difference that definitely helps. Check it with a ruler).

In terms of loudness, there's an even better option, but out of the question (to me) in terms of comfortableness: Stop the strings at the 13th fret and touch them with your pinky at the 18th. This brings the fourth harmonic (two octaves above the fundamental), which is louder than the fifth, but... (just try to get the full chord that way)

[user101]

Originally Posted by the_fooj

I don't think it actually makes that much of a difference because I asked my bass teacher about it (he has that Hitchhiker's tumb too) and he said that it actually sometimes hinders him when slapping.

i have that hitchhiker's thumb and it does get annoying sometimes. Since it's parallel to the strings i tend to miss out on the downstroke. But it does give me an advantage during the upstroke.

What i've come to notice is that, although i can nail the double thump but the downstroke and upstroke are at different volumes. So it's back to 60 bpm for me. If you're just starting out, pay attention to your consistency, that's what it's all about. Speed will come naturally.

[jenderfazz]

So wait, you haven't been playing for a year yet? The best cure for any song you can't tackle is time. Keep practicing that slapping and you'll get better at it. Don't worry about your thumb, it's even less important than finger length (which people always make a big deal about). Follow the instructions everyone has listed here, but please, just take it slowly and enjoy the ride. You have a lot of bass playing ahead of you.

[davec]

Classical Thump, or any slapping for that matter shorten your strap.... I mean have the bass under your chin if you have to.
as to Jaco..... God bless and good luck

[jazzcrime]

i'm no double thumper but a great friend of mine is the best emulator of victor wooten's technique i've seen (online videos and forums included!) and he keeps his thumb basically dead straight and parallel to the strings and curves his fingers right up underneath his palm. the other thing that struck me was how loose and relaxing his whole hand and wrist were when he did it, he told me if you're not relaxed you won't be able to do it. this might give you some inspiration to approach the double thumbing thing in a different way.

[Mark Wilson]

Great Post, Alvaro.

[John Wentzien]

Using the bridge pickup for harmonics will make them sound clearer... pick close to the bridge also...

[trb6pJM2]

Here's the thing about POT, Jaco was a complete FREAK about his growl, he Had NO, i repeat NO volume on his neck pickup, when he did this song, if you have a J, or you have a potentiometers that control the volume of you neck and bridge pickups seperatly, turn the neck all the way down, and the bridge volume and tone all the way up. As for hitting the harmonics, make sure you have your and and fingers floating on the string at exactly the point of the fret, or the 2/3 mark, as this will give a clean pretty harmonic, if you halfass it, you get a muddy tone. Also, you have to find your bass's sweet spot for harmonics. every bass is different, mine is directly in front of the bridge pickup, making it hard for me to go in between harmonics and the growling open notes all the way at the bridge. just play with your right hand all over the string and find the sweet spot, that, and a light touching left hand, is the key to volume.

as for classical thump.... i'm not too much of an expert but i think parts of this will help with the technique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXSB0yDlS54

this will help you get to know Wooten, and how he plays, it may help, may not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkQ5Uk0VfQg

[Mark Wilson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FvXUVHECwM

This is Vic playing the tune.

[bassistloaded21]

not being offensive, but if u wanna become a gigging bassist id reccomend learning some technique and grooving before that stuff. Ive seen so many bassist that can learn to play that stuff, but when it comes to playing with a band they literally have NO IDEA what to do. The flash and stuff is fine if you wanna play bass as a hobby, but if you plan on gigging, id reccomend going in another direction. Just my lil 2cents

[vyse933]

Originally Posted by bassistloaded21

not being offensive, but if u wanna become a gigging bassist id reccomend learning some technique and grooving before that stuff. Ive seen so many bassist that can learn to play that stuff, but when it comes to playing with a band they literally have NO IDEA what to do. The flash and stuff is fine if you wanna play bass as a hobby, but if you plan on gigging, id reccomend going in another direction. Just my lil 2cents

Great point mike! (it's your friendly GH bassist friend) It's more important as a gigging bassist to groove, and IMO it's way more fun to groove then to play victor wooten and jaco stuff. (not to say victor and jaco stuff shouldn't be learned and arn't fun to play) Also if you groove you can experience the spectacular fun or jamming with people. I understand that feeling when you're just starting to play bass, (you know, that, I gotta be better then everybody else and learn all these hard lines quicker then anybody and show that i'm the greatest bassist ever feeling), but that's not what it's about, IMO. It's about playing music, playing with people, just playing.

[MirageBass]

Originally Posted by bassistloaded21

not being offensive, but if u wanna become a gigging bassist id reccomend learning some technique and grooving before that stuff. Ive seen so many bassist that can learn to play that stuff, but when it comes to playing with a band they literally have NO IDEA what to do. The flash and stuff is fine if you wanna play bass as a hobby, but if you plan on gigging, id reccomend going in another direction. Just my lil 2cents

You assume I don't have that . I've been in a band (a tad too acrimonious, though), I've written lines, and I can groove pretty well. I just like learning advanced lines to pick them apart and add concepts to my own stuff.

[Angel_Malik]

man i know how u feel i been practicing that songor a while and i cant understand the picking on the solo he does sum arpegios really fast and his hand is like a real real pick i ot nearly all the parts before that one i found a tab on the guitar pro but it doesnt help a lot cause some parts are missinng and i cant understand how he picks on that part if someone can help me on doing that part or show me a video of how u can pick on that part ill be on life debt with the one who helps me i really want to play this song if someone can get me a video explainng the mportant parts of the son it wold be cool ty u and keep playing

[Angel_Malik]

i forgot to put on my mail so u can help me so its dave_brown_sound@hotmail.com my mspace is www.myspace.com/angel_malik so if u can help me ill be on debt with u thatnks