Clave

[SSINTENSE]

My teacher wants me to practice with the clave rhythm this week and to look into some Latin bass lines to get a general idea and feel for it. I was told that there are certain rules which Latin musicians take seriously and take great care to honor.

Does anyone know what general patterns/ideas are used in the clave and can someone point me out to some good examples of some real sick Latin bass lines?

Thanks!

[Mushroo]

A good place to start is by learning a bass pattern called the "tumbao." You play on the "and" of 2 and on 4. Usually play the root on beat 4 and the 5th on the and of 2. It is a tricky rhythm because you don't play on the downbeat. Practice playing the tumbao while your drummer (or a drum machine) plays the clave, and you will start to hear how it all fits together. Good luck!

[SSINTENSE]

That's awesome! Thanks so much

[Mushroo]

In case you are not familiar with the different types of clave: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clave_(rhythm)

Best place to start is learning the 3:2 son and 2:3 son claves. Listen to how they line up with your tumbao bass part. The tumbao "clicks" with the 3 side of the clave, and is opposite to the 2 side.

[SSINTENSE]

Very polyrhythmish. I was wondering why he had me do all these weird polyrhythm excercises. It makes approaches like this alot easier to understand and I don't feel so gravitated towards exactly what the drummer is doing, only the pulse that is defining the space. Thanks for the tip man I appreciate it.

[SSINTENSE]

and go boomers! I'm a fan. This will get moderated won't it?

[jefkritz]

Originally Posted by Mushroo

A good place to start is by learning a bass pattern called the "tumbao." You play on the "and" of 2 and on 4. Usually play the root on beat 4 and the 5th on the and of 2. It is a tricky rhythm because you don't play on the downbeat. Practice playing the tumbao while your drummer (or a drum machine) plays the clave, and you will start to hear how it all fits together. Good luck!

this is right on.

when you play the root on beat 4, it is the root of the following measure, not the current one.

it should be noted that this is only the basis, and that more often than not variations are played. sometimes the downbeat is played, though it generally isn't.

[gmahoog]

This is a great book/CD for Afro-Cuban bass patterns:

http://www.amazon.com/Funkifying-Cla.../dp/0769220207

It has practice patterns and 6 songs. You won't be sorry if you add this to your collection.

(You don't have to buy through Amazon)

[mambo4]

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LEARNING THE TUMBAO
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this keeps coming up! I played for 5 years in a salsa outfit, heres my best tips:

The bass tumbao in cuban music revolves around two specific beats in the measure:
namely, the upbeat "and" of 2 (called the bombo) and the downbeat of the four (the ponche)
Typically the bass plays the root of chord on the bombo, followed by the the fifth on the ponche.
This syncs up perfectly with the last 2 beats of the 3-side of the clave rhythm, which is what is meant by being "correct with teh clave"

-practice clapping the clave and singing the bass tumbao rhythm. great because you can do it anywhere, while walking your pace can be the metronome.

-Learn the conga tumbao. Even better: learn the rest of the rhythm section patterns. Piano montuno, the cascara on the Timbales, etc...they all interlock, and can guide you correctly when a simple Clave beat is absent.

-the Latin bass Book and True Cuban Bass as mentioned in other threads

-In addition to the suggested listening, Check out Cachao's "Master Sessions Vol I & II" or "Cuba Linda" for some tumbao mastery.

[SSINTENSE]

Thanks!

[tinyd]

Originally Posted by mambo4

namely, the upbeat "and" of 2 (called the bombo) and the downbeat of the four (the ponche)
Typically the bass plays the root of chord on the bombo, followed by the the fifth on the ponche.

I agree with all of Mambo4's advice, but I think that it's worth clarifying that the important thing about the Tumbao (and IMHO the most difficult thing to learn) is that the note on the ponche usually anticipates the root of the next chord, which means as a bass player for that one beat you're leading the harmony of the tune out there on your own. So over a single-chord section of the tune, the bombo will tend to play the fifth (or another leading note) and the ponche will have the root.

[lament]

The Latin Bass Book is wonderful.

[lament]

Originally Posted by mambo4

namely, the upbeat "and" of 2 (called the bombo) and the downbeat of the four (the ponche)

Do other beats have names too?

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Here's a typical Salsa pattern and its relationship with the clave:

[Stumbo]

Latin help. Learning Latin music

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by SSINTENSE

can someone point me out to some good examples of some real sick Latin bass lines?

Thanks!

Here's one just to get you started on sick Latin basslines.

HI

Can I recommend (very strongly) any of the books by Jerry Leake - he is a percussionist and ethnomusicologist and has some incredible books through his own publishing company (which I think he runs from the university he works at), which is called Rhombus publishing. He does a basic book called 'Clave' which is all about the clave.

I would say also, don't just stop at the Latin rhythms. South American rhythms have their origins in African rhythms, so you'll actually find loads and loads of 'claves' in Africa. My friend went to Ghana, and went to a school where there was a big group of kids of ages about 8-12, all playing bells in a polyrhythmic cacophany - he said in that playground he heard every single bell pattern he'd ever heard elsewhere from all around the world. He studies and teaches percussion so he knows what he's talking about. The diversity of rhythms in Ghana is extreme.

For the 4/4 claves, you also have counterparts in 12/8, which are similar but fit the triplet feel. If you take these 5 note claves in 12/8, then start looking at the spaces in between, you get 7 note patterns that are basically the standard bell pattern, and this stuff starts to get very very interesting.

I would highly, highly recommend 'African bell ritual' by Jerry Leake. I discovered at one point when I was learning displacements of the standard bell pattern (Agbekor) that the standard bell pattern in 12/8 is the same as the major scale in terms of the interval relationships. That totally blew my mind - the standard pattern is as central to African rhythm as the major scale is to western tonality - is it some strange coincidence that they're the same pattern?

If you're going to look for really interesting stuff in rhythm I would go to africa - it's all there and it's much deeper. A lot of the time latin stuff is so 'fiesta woo woo' or cheesy salsa it's not as interesting. The only person I've heard to really really cool stuff with Latin music is Marc Ribot (who I'm gonna meet on Sunday cos we're supporting him I think I'm going to pee myself).

Ok, so basically - claves are totally amazing.

[Lobster11]

Another book to check out is Billy Martin's (of Medeski Martin and Wood) "Riddim: Claves of African Origin." He details countless clave rhythms and polyrhythms in 5's, 6's, 12's, 4's and other times, and presents them in a unique nomenclature that is very easy to follow.