Complaints from Sound guy....

[jim_bass]

I have been getting some comments about the sound of my bass from the guy on the sound desk at my church and wanted to ask some advice.

He complains that my sound is always 'clipping', but I am not convinced that that is actually what he means.

By 'clipping' I would expect that the level of the signal from my bass into the mixing desk (I'm DIing straight in at the mo' until I buy a new amp) is too high and the Preamp is struggling with the signal and producing a popping sound...

Anyway, what he seems to be complaining about is actually the sound of my strings hitting the frets when I am playing fast (either with a pick or fingers) as he never notices it during slower songs. e also complains particularly if I am slapping.

Anyway the question is this about the sound he is complaining about...

Is it A) because I have an active bass it seems to boost that sound more, B) Down to bad technique, C) Some other good reason that I don't know about?

I have been playing bass for a long time (15 years) and never had any complaints before.

Advice please...

[NJL]

have him record a performance and listen for yourself

[MooseLumps]

If the board has a clip indicator on your channel, and it's flashing, have him roll off the trim on your channel or roll off your volume. If he is a dork, and mistakes fret noise for clipping, roll off your treble or work on your technique.

You and your sound man need to have a good relationship if you want to sound good, so I wouldn't call him a dork to his face.

[JTE]

It doesn't have to create audible distortion at any point- it could very well be that the signal indicator for that channel strip of the mixer is showing clipping. Why? Anywhere along the chain could be too hot. The bass' pre could be hot (although I've never had an active bass that was noticably hotter than my passive ones- going back to the StingRay I bought in 1979 through the Laklands I've been using for the last 10 years or so), the DI could be poorly matched to the bass and the transformer in the DI is clipping, or the signal at the board is too hot.

I know a lot of churches have the gain set with instructions not to touch it (I'd LOVE to lock down the board I operate at church because choir members think they know how to operate the gear and often don't have a clue). If the signal hitting the board is too hot, and they can't get the gain trimmed, then you'll need to limit it before it getst there. A compressor/limiter set so the average gain is below the clip threshold might help. That way on the slapping parts it'll keep the level down, and let you play the ballad stuff without being too quiet.

But start with communications. Find out exactly what's happening. If it's the signal clipping then you know what to work on. If it's the technique, then you have something else to work on. Get together with the sound crew sometime when it's just you and them. Plug in and see what they're hearing and seeing. Heck, since you're going direct, take the DI up to the mixer and plug straight in at the board and sit with them while you play some stuff. That'll help all of you determine whether it's the signal or the noise of strings on the frets.

jte

[AlembicPlayer]

sounds like he may be hearing clicking from strings hitting pups..
do you have low action and high pickups?
are the strings actually touching the pickups when you dig in?
I've seen this issue on a few basses.

you may not hear the clicking thru a rig, but thru a DI it can be heard

[ashtray]

Could be your technique - you could be playing harder or when you are playing faster, your technique might suffer and your volume could be inconsistent (or your strings might be smacking the frets and causing a volume spike). I'd suggest a compressor/limiter to help with this. Any unwanted sounds won't come through as a spike at least, and your playing volume will be more controlled/consistent. You will lose a bit of dynamics if you set your compressor too high, but it's probably worth it to get a steady volume from your bass.

[jim_bass]

FWIW. I'm using a Yamaha RBX374 and you're right, It has quite a low action and the pickups are quite high. The DI is behringer one. It has a DB Pad control, but I've left it at 0DB (rather than -10 or -20). Also, I do play with my master volume on the bass at about 3/4....

I'll try plugging in and sitting at the desk to see what the problem is. thanks for the advice.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by AlembicPlayer

sounds like he may be hearing clicking from strings hitting pups..
do you have low action and high pickups?
are the strings actually touching the pickups when you dig in?
I've seen this issue on a few basses.

you may not hear the clicking thru a rig, but thru a DI it can be heard

This was the first thing I thought, too.

[Lichtaffen]

You can slap and pop in your church? I need to change my denomination. Unless you play organ, you're pretty much sitting in the pews at my church.

[excane]

Originally Posted by NJL

have him record a performance and listen for yourself

+1

Or better yet, record it and let us listen.

[baba]

Originally Posted by AlembicPlayer

sounds like he may be hearing clicking from strings hitting pups..
do you have low action and high pickups?
are the strings actually touching the pickups when you dig in?
I've seen this issue on a few basses.

you may not hear the clicking thru a rig, but thru a DI it can be heard

This is the first thing I thought of. Check this.

I would assume he's verified the gain level isn't too high and it isn't the signal to the board clipping.

[pbagley]

You may want to try a little compression. Not too much, just enough to emulate a decent bass amp.

We run a (mostly) silent stage, DI everything and use Aviom in ear (or headphone) monitors. Our sound guys discovered compression, and it is the new hammer. All the world is a nail. With the heavy compression I have no dynamics in my playing. Often playing soft is louder in the headphones than playing hard. The tail of every note has some annoying artifacts before being hard chopped. Sometimes I can add a hi-hat part just by tapping the strings very lightly - the sound of the compressor-limiter artifact triggering.

Light compression can help even out a signal that has a lot of dynamic range.

Heavy compression is very annoying.

Good luck,

- Paul

[joehaven]

Originally Posted by pbagley

You may want to try a little compression.

+1

[JTE]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

You can slap and pop in your church? I need to change my denomination. Unless you play organ, you're pretty much sitting in the pews at my church.

Check out a church that's hip to Fred Hammond, Kirk Frankin, Israel And New Breed, and Andrew Gouché. Hammond and Gouché are both pretty interesting bassists themselves too.

jte

[jim_bass]

I just realised that before I sold all my effects, I was running a small amount of compression on my behringer v-amp. He has only commented since I got rid of the effects. Can't wait to have a play around with the settings on sunday....

As for the slap in church comment, yeah I get to play lots of different styles. From ye olde hymns to modern rock etc. I play heavier in our youth band, where I'd say our biggest inspiration are alt. rock/punk.

[kb9wyz]

I'm running an active bass into the board, through a Sansamp @ 1/2 volume which runs through a compressor into a Radial DI (active).

I don't have a passive thing in my gear and I have NEVER gotten clipping, even when I had the volume at a kind of rediculous level and almost made myself poop cause it was so loud.

Your sound guy is hearing your frets.

Or the battery in your axe is low.

[pedroims]

I am the sound sound guy at my church and here are the most commun problems I have:

* Clipping signal from very hot output basses -- I roll off the trim bottom and keep the signal between 7 and 10 db.

* Very low input signal, from cheap crapy basses --- I always have a Sansamp BDID arounf . just in case.

NOW THE WORST

* Bummy sound or that QUACK sound --- I always ask to the player to send me a FLAT signal, I dont care about ..."' but its my sound''

* The bass player that once the service start likes to tweak all knobs in his bass, I have explained them alot of time that the in ear monitor is before pre, so what they hear is not what the audience hear, he doesnt really care? time to talk with the leader.

* Bad technique, one bass player from our chourch HIT the pickups , so the sound is like: note-tac, note-tac, I talked with him, he is working on.

* Bass player that refuse to change batteries before service start -- at the first time of crapy signal- press the mute buttom.

* Bass player that love to play 1000 notes per minute and love to step on everyone else --- use the fader, yeah way down.

Its hard but when I am running the sound I prefer people from the audience telling me how good the sound was that the whole band buging me about they did not hear their tone.

[HEADLE]

Originally Posted by pedroims

NOW THE WORST

* Bummy sound or that QUACK sound --- I always ask to the player to send me a FLAT signal, I dont care about ..."' but its my sound''


Its hard but when I am running the sound I prefer people from the audience telling me how good the sound was that the whole band buging me about they did not hear their tone.

Hmmm... For some reason or other I spend tons of money every year to make myself sound a certain way. Just cuz you don't like it doesn't mean others and myself don't. Sound men always think they know what sounds best. You aren't the be all to end all it's a group effort.

H

[alembicguy]

Originally Posted by AlembicPlayer

sounds like he may be hearing clicking from strings hitting pups..
do you have low action and high pickups?
are the strings actually touching the pickups when you dig in?
I've seen this issue on a few basses.

you may not hear the clicking thru a rig, but thru a DI it can be heard

This is what I was thinking also.

[cantstopwinning]

sound guys are the worst. church sound guys are even worse than that.