Confession time

[ggunn]

When I am playing, everything sounds fine to me, but what I listen to playback, not so much. When I listen to many other bassists, I hear a percussive character to their sound that I just don't have, and they aren't playing with picks, either. I have tried different strings and different basses, playing near the bridge and away from it, different pickup combinations, playing harder, playing softer... and now I'm thinking that maybe it's something else technique related. I don't know what I could be doing differently, but I've eliminated everything else I can think of. Any ideas for me?

[Hellbastard]

unless you post an example of what you mean by "percussive character", there's not really much we can do to help you.

[shadow_FIX]

I make a "pick-like" percussive attack by tactfully rebounding the string off the fretboard. More of an into-the-bass attack than an across-the-bass attack.

[Bullitt5135]

Originally Posted by shadow_FIX

I make a "pick-like" percussive attack by tactfully rebounding the string off the fretboard. More of an into-the-bass attack than an across-the-bass attack.

+1 That pretty much sums up my approach. I also let the nails on my index and middle finger grow out a few mm to get a little bit of a pick tone. I guess I kind of attack the string with the meaty part of my fingertips, thumping the strings into the fretboard a bit, then pull through with my nails. I think I developed this approach years ago after reading about Geddy Lee's right-hand technique. I know his style has evolved a lot over the years, but there was a time when he took a more percussive approach.

I should mention that I am a total poser, and I am probably the last person to give advise on technique.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Hellbastard

unless you post an example of what you mean by "percussive character", there's not really much we can do to help you.

Well, I don't have any files to post, but maybe I can describe it better. When I listen to myself on playback, I hear plenty of low end, but not the attack of the note. It's like every note starts with a M or a W, where I want it to start with a P. A picked note starts with a T, and that's something different.

Actually, percussive is the wrong word. I remember from speech classes the word "plosive" to describe the "P" phoneme, which I believe is more what I am trying to get across.

I'm not talking about clicks and clacks, strings slapping on fretboard or fingernails on strings, just a strong sharp attack of the note itself. A PAW instead of a MAW, if you will (if you say "PAW PAW PAW PAW" and "MAW MAW MAW MAW", that illustrates it pretty well).

Is that better?

EDIT: My basses are both active. Could it be that I am wanting to hear the sound of a passive bass, like maybe something to do with dynamic range, or is that out in left field?

[Hellbastard]

Have you tried using a compressor and focussing the mids on amp? It sound that you're looking for a sharper attack on the note you play.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Hellbastard

Have you tried using a compressor and focussing the mids on amp? It sound that you're looking for a sharper attack on the note you play.

Yes, absolutely that is what I am looking for, but I have tried lots of EQing and much messing around with three different compressors to no avail.

Actually the compressors seemed to make it worse, which is what started me thinking about active vs passive basses and the degree of compression inherent to active electronics. Both my basses are active (Alembic Epic 5 and Bongo 5 HHP).

[staindbass]

i think it has to do with how you "let go" of the string with your finger. if the let off is slow, you get a warm thick note with less attack. its almost like the bass mids and treble start at different times, making it blur. if you let off quick, bass mid and treble all happen at once and you get a more immediate sound. jaco is a good example of this. his notes "start" quicker than alot of bassists. i wish i could explain it better..

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by staindbass

i think it has to do with how you "let go" of the string with your finger. if the let off is slow, you get a warm thick note with less attack. its almost like the bass mids and treble start at different times, making it blur. if you let off quick, bass mid and treble all happen at once and you get a more immediate sound. jaco is a good example of this. his notes "start" quicker than alot of bassists. i wish i could explain it better..

That's what I have been thinking, too, which is what prompted me to post this in the techniques forum, but how does one do that? I pull on the string, I let it go. How do I let go quicker?

[FaithNoMan]

Attack it faster. I mostly play pickstyle, but when I used my fingers all the time, I used to watch Flea play fingerstyle on his dvd I have.

He aggressively "claws" at the strings at times:

YouTube - ‪[Bass Lesson] Flea Bass Lesson - 1‬‏

[sikamikanico]

i would say it's probably technique, and for developing that, passive basses are great! actually, I have a P-bass in mind...

if not that, it's between the strings and EQ... i would recommend flats and mids

[MEKer]

what basses are you playing, and their pickups?

[MarkA]

First thing I would do is listen to someone else -- a player you respect -- play your instrument and rig while you listen, to eliminate the equipment as a variable. If that person can't get what you're looking for with your equipment (but can with his own), look to your equipment (either the rig or the settings). If that person can easily get what you're looking at on your rig... ask for a lesson! (Alternatively, if you hear a player getting a sound you dig, you can ask to try their rig.) Seriously, there's a lot to be said for watching a good player (and having good players watch you) in the flesh.

EDIT: I should have read the thread through better the first time -- off-base advice/comparisons deleted.

On re-reading, Jaco (as mentioned above) is who comes to mind for fast plosives (rather than Flea and Steve Harris when I was thinking variations on "off the fret" percussive-edge). Depth (tips to "meat" of fingers), angle, speed and force of attack, and muting technique can all influence what I'm picturing you talking about, but a specific example (player, tune, or vid) would help.

[Slammin]

The fact that using a compressor makes it worse is the most telling to me. Basically, you feel your playing sounds mono-toned, like that boring person chairing the meeting you have to sit through and try to stay awake.

You need to vary how hard you play your notes. Hitting every note with the same amount of force is like drawing a perfect circle. If you can do it, well, you are better than me, but if if that is how you play, your will sound like a boring monotonous speech.

Try not to play so perfect. Use some body language to force yourself to put the emphasis where it needs to be if you have to.

[Russell L]

Heh, heh, I always thought there should be a bass pedal for that attack you're talking about, kinda like when the bass drum and bass guitar hit together.

For me, I get a little more "bump" when I play toward the neck and lighten my touch some. Of course, that is a tad similar to scooping the mids some, so I usally run the eq flat at least. Or, I can get a slightly thinner attack by backing up toward the bridge a bit.

Something else that helps is lots of speakers. An 810 can make even my G-string sound fat.

[251]

What do you hear when listening to others playing live?

Recording & playback affect what is heard. Likewise, standing near your speaker sounds different than standing 25 feet away.

[trevcda]

Before you go changing everything that sounds fine when you're playing, you should as yourself (and tell us) what your using for "playback". If it's an overdriven camera mic that's has its ALC driven hard with every kick drum hit, it's not exactly an accurate representation. If your bass sound is being taken from a DI before the amp and all your sound guy is getting is a bunch of lowend, he a)prefers that tone, b)can't get any definition from that feed or c) has enough high end coming from the stage at the mix position that he doesn't feel compelled to add more to the FOH mix. This happens a lot with board mixes in small rooms that are being mixed for the room, not the recording. And because of this, and like 251 alludes to above, unless the stage volume is strictly for your own monitoring and the mains are relyed upon for reproduction it's going to sound different not only near and far (thank you, grover) but at different places through out the room. Work with your sound guy on this and add a cab mic, if channel count allows, to add to the sound and give your BE a reference for the sound your trying to get. Be aware that what may be a sound you like by itself may not be what mixes best with the rest of band... FWIW