Coping with mediocrity...

[Matthew_84]

Title says it all.

I think I've had about enough of trying to play fast. Since I've started to play 4.5 years ago, I've struggled to play anything faster than 16ths @ 80 BPM. Now I know that speed isn't everything, but my two favourite bassists are Geddy Lee and James Jamerson, guys that at many moments play much faster than 16ths @ 80 BPM (even if it's just for a note or two), and I would love nothing more than to be able to play like them, or at least keep up with some of my favourite songs.

I've tried everything: picks, three-finger techniques, one-finger-flicks, etc., The only technique I feel totally comfortable with is two fingers doing downstrokes only.

I'm just having a hard-time knowing that I won't be able to get much faster... And yes, the amp's turned up and I try to play with a light touch, and I've been dialing up the metronome for years, but can only get so fast.

Anyways, I guess I'm realizing that since I can't play what I'd like to play, that I must change what it is that I like to play. It's time to drop the speed chase and focus on an impeccable sense of rhythm, a vast knowledge of theory and improving my ear and improvisation.

Whatever is in store for me, I'll deal with it because this instrument is one of the most important things in my life. But I am curious if there are others out there who had similar revelations and what they did afterwards.

[JoeyNaeger]

4.5 years really isn't that long to be playing an instrument seriously. I've been playing double bass for for about ten years and can play much faster than I could have five years. I'm sure in twenty years, it will be the same story.

[theretheyare]

In addition to JoeyNaeger's sound advice: you might have noticed that while Jamerson and Geddy can play fast, they only do so occasionally-neither of them strikes me as people who praticed with metronomes at certain tempo's-they make music.

In my experience speed comes with precision, and precision has more to do with awareness and being in the moment than setting metronomes. Relax, play each and every note to the fullest no matter what the temp and take your time-your speed will build.

[fingerbun]

I would imagine most players have moments like that. I certainly have. The thing is, firstly there is always someone better than you at something, and secondly, however good you are you will always be aware of what you can't do. I'll bet Geddy Lee is jealous of someone, if we only knew!

How I respond to it is to persist. You may never be as fast as Jamerson or Lee but you can be faster than you are now. Also I look for ways to build on my strengths. And I try to keep learning new things.

Have you tried measuring yourself in small strokes? So now you can do 16ths at 80BPM. Spend a month playing at 85PBM, or 82BPM and see what gives. It might actually be that you are getting faster but just don't realise.

Good luck.

[evilt70]

Getting close to 24 years playing bass, and still not as fast as I'd like to be either, but I am at the fastest I've ever been. Some folks are able to play fast just like that, for others (me included) it takes a bit of time. Don't give up on it.

[eddododo]

Its because youre starting fast- these note-wizards aren't usually,magical or freaks of nature; what they've done is put in work.

You get fast runs by PERFECTING SLOW TECHNIQUE. no one started fast. No one.
Make real tangible goals, like 'i will be able to run scales at 90 bpm by january 20th' -- though more important are the daily goals in between (' today I will not stop until I do scales at 80 bpm PEFECTLY 10 times')
If you never quantify your progress, youll never make any

Amateurs practice until they get it right. Pros practice until they can't get it wrong

[JimmyM]

Concentrate on playing music, not BPM. Make every note sound like you mean it. Way more important than speed, although speed is nice to have. But speed is a by-product of playing music that challenges you, so keep striving for it but through the music itself and not like you're running speed drills before the football game. Don't beat yourself up about it if it doesn't come right away.

[jgroh]

Originally Posted by fingerbun

I'll bet Geddy Lee is jealous of someone, if we only knew!

That person would probably be Jeff Berlin.

[phatbass]

Learn the fast lines you want to play, but play them as SLOWLY as you need to to get them smooth, clean and consistent.

[fingerbun]

Originally Posted by jgroh

That person would probably be Jeff Berlin.

And Berlin is jealous of.....

http://www.jeffberlinmusic.com/pics/pic1.jpg

[Twospot]

I think JimmyM said it above the best. However per Phatbass's post, if you really want to learn the parts learn it slow. Maybe invest in a Slow Down Trainer like the Tascam GB-10 or if you have an iphone or iPad tryout the Slow Down Music Trainer app

[chaosMK]

4.5 years is just learning to walk. After my first 4-5 years I thought I was ready to start playing in bands and I did. Ten years and many very satisfying projects/bands/albums later I'm still just getting started. The more advanced and experienced I get, the more I'm just getting started!

My thought is Longevity > Talent. I never thought I had particularly awesome talent compared to a lot of guys but I've been playing/practicing so long that people seem to think I do. Just keep your heart in it and be creative with what you feel comfortable with (sorry for all the equations, but IMO Good judgement > Flash).

[ksandvik]

I doubt anyone would ever learn everyone possible about music and their instruments. And if you are getting close, play drums or guitar/keyboards/sax....

[keiththebassist]

Originally Posted by eddododo

Its because youre starting fast- these note-wizards aren't usually,magical or freaks of nature; what they've done is put in work.

You get fast runs by PERFECTING SLOW TECHNIQUE. no one started fast. No one.
Make real tangible goals, like 'i will be able to run scales at 90 bpm by january 20th' -- though more important are the daily goals in between (' today I will not stop until I do scales at 80 bpm PEFECTLY 10 times')
If you never quantify your progress, youll never make any

Amateurs practice until they get it right. Pros practice until they can't get it wrong

+1

Find the speed you're comfortable at and slowly start to bring up the tempo, around 2-4 BPM at a time. You may be trying to leap too far too fast. Also, One thing that has helped my consistency and speed is using a 3 finger technique but accenting every 4th note. It is tricky at first because the accent lands on a different finger each time. Once you get a hold of it, it gets much easier pretty quickly. And for me it's the only way to keep up using the three finger technique without it sounding too "triplety"

[punkinfantry]

you don't need your plucking finger to touch the string for every note. practice playing scales and stuff using the force of your fretting fingers to sound the notes. this improves fret precision, speed, and lets you do some pretty cool wanking to impress yourself and no one else <-- like that guy

[Skitch it!]

You are being too hard on yourself dude, it is something that comes with time.

One question just for my interest not that it matters, do you rake or alternate more?

[India_Sierra]

I think you need to switch off the metronome. Seriously, switch it off and put it in the drawer. Don't look at it, don't think about it. Just stick some of their tracks on, work out the notes of a song and start playing it. Even if you need to slow it down and play some sections in free time, just do that and get a feel for it. Attempt the fast passages unaccompanied and get a feel for banging those notes out. Eventually, you'll be able to play along with the record, though you may sound a bit sloppy at first. But it should come, the physical act of producing the music should come.

I think a big risk is assessing music too mechanically, especially when you're still relatively new to playing. You can get too wrapped up in metronomes, and scale charts and theory. This can have a negative effect on your playing, because you're focusing on a science instead of an art form. Ultimately, the aim of the game is to make music and sometimes it pays to take a step back and think about music as opposed to theory and that sort of thing. I don't think you're doing yourself any favours by beating yourself up over not being able to match a metronome.

[Matthew_84]

Thanks everybody for your input. There's some interesting ideas here.

I do like the idea of putting away the metronome. I've been trying to play the bassline to the quicker guitar solo is Zeppelin's Dazed and Confused (which is fifteen 16th notes in a row at roughly 84 BPM, repeated for a minute or so) and I can get somewhat close to doing it after I've worked myself up to it, but I know the melody and don't need to count, I just play along. But if I try to play 1/16ths at 84 on its own, I focus too much on counting and am nowhere near accomplishing it. I guess I will just focus on learning songs and choosing harder and harder ones rather than just pounding away on an open string at a certain BPM.

I also like the idea of hammering-on notes, so I don't have to pluck every one, and I may try a 3 finger technique again as well. I just didn't like the odd number and landing on a different finger each time, but once I get used to it, I'd likely be okay.

Originally Posted by Skitch it!

You are being too hard on yourself dude, it is something that comes with time.

One question just for my interest not that it matters, do you rake or alternate more?

I used to rake every time, but there was a great thread a while ago where JimmyM made some very good points towards strictly alternating, and since then I've tried removing raking from my technique altogether. I have noticed an increase in speed since doing so, but the odd time I still catch myself raking, so I should focus on eliminating that as well.

Thanks again everyone,

Matt

[Tupac]

Originally Posted by eddododo

Its because youre starting fast- these note-wizards aren't usually,magical or freaks of nature; what they've done is put in work.

You get fast runs by PERFECTING SLOW TECHNIQUE. no one started fast. No one.
Make real tangible goals, like 'i will be able to run scales at 90 bpm by january 20th' -- though more important are the daily goals in between (' today I will not stop until I do scales at 80 bpm PEFECTLY 10 times')
If you never quantify your progress, youll never make any

Amateurs practice until they get it right. Pros practice until they can't get it wrong

Truth. As my martial arts teacher always told me, "You can add speed to technique, but you can't add technique to speed"

[jefkritz]

as you mentioned in your first post, i'd focus on impeccable rhythm. what's speed if you can't put the notes exactly where you want to?

plus, try practicing really quick notes in the context of other rhythms instead of just straight 16th notes. easier, and more useful.

side note regarding the three finger technique: i've been using this for about four years now, and i love it. but, i'm still faster with two fingers. i find that the real advantage is increased stamina. ie i can't play as fast, but i can play fast for a lot longer.