The correct strap, position and why.

[DBTOYS]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Because I am not sitting when I'm standing, therefore I want my bass in another position. I have no problems playing in that position, and I hate having my bass high when I'm standing.

Sorry...I wasn't aware that you were the Strap Police and the official ruler on who's a musician and who's not. If that makes me less of a musician and more of an entertainer in your eyes, ask me if I care. Damn right I'm an entertainer, and proud of it. And I'll still play the **** out of any song I do. You don't want to entertain, then why even bother going onstage?

I Second That!

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Blunt

On the whole muscle memory thing I think well I hope we are just talking past each other. What I know from my experience and learning from some of the great jazz educators like Howard Roberts, Barry Galbraith (from books not face to face tuition) is they they talk about plateaus of learning.
You get to a certain level. Its cool. But to get to that next level requires an effort. Now is that mental, muscle learning or whatever. I don'y know and the whole anatomy thing is cool on a an intellectual level.
I studied postmodern geography at the PHd level for 7 years. So if you want to talk about the vagaries of the commercial property market in Sydney, I am your man.

However, I believe that through repetition that the brain tells muscles to do things more efficiently.

Can you dispute this. It is only through this format I can play Teen Town.

Yes through repetition we get more efficient, runners and cyclists have a tendency to find the most efficient cadence/ style etc for their bodies, they may work on finer points but the greatest put in a lot of 'junk' miles.

Playing/practice for me, well it seems relaxation while playing is key to no injury. If I alter something I get an injury, or more to the point aggravate a prior injury collected over my almost 50 years.

On topic, strap is set the same sitting or standing. I tried classical guitar position and that did not work for me at all. (didn't work for classical guitar either)

[Fergie Fulton]

Reading through these again it seems strap height became a focus rather than strap position at the neck shoulder. That is something to remember than what ever height you play at, the strap should be wide and more to the outside of the shoulder...not the neck. That should be the one point common to all, strap position, after all that's what the post was about.

[nickmo007]

I think you should try to find a balance where both wrists are as straight as possible to avoid stressing the tendons. Regarding strap height/ musician quality comparison.....as long as the dude with the bass down to his knees is laying it down righteously with a good tone and playing a bass line that supports and enhances the song, who cares where the strap is.

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Reading through these again it seems strap height became a focus rather than strap position at the neck shoulder. That is something to remember than what ever height you play at, the strap should be wide and more to the outside of the shoulder...not the neck. That should be the one point common to all, strap position, after all that's what the post was about.

The distance from the base of my neck to the edge of my shoulder is 8 inches. My Sadowsky Neo strap is 3 7/8 wide..

So if this is about where the strap is positioned on your shoulder it seems like a big waste of time to me..

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

The distance from the base of my neck to the edge of my shoulder is 8 inches. My Sadowsky Neo strap is 3 7/8 wide..

So if this is about where the strap is positioned on your shoulder it seems like a big waste of time to me..

Don't quite understand you point, Is it strap position, your shoulder, your strap or your bass that is a waste of time.

Since we cannot change or physiology in an instant we can certainly get a strap position changed in an instant.

In modern life it is accepted the dual straps on the shoulders away from the neck is an ergonomic design. Instrument manufacturers seem to be slow to take this up, A bass hung over both shoulders is better than a bass over one. You only have to look at the sport of Golf in all its forms from amatuer to professional to see how they now carry weight (golf bags).
From schools bags for children to walkers and hikers, to the armed services, duel straps are the way to hold weight. So if we are going to stay using one over the shoulder, then let it be a wide strap, and away from the neck, that's what i'm saying....try it you'll be surprised and if you can't move it... i would guess wrong strap.

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Don't quite understand you point, Is it strap position, your shoulder, your strap or your bass that is a waste of time.

Since we cannot change or physiology in an instant we can certainly get a strap position changed in an instant.

In modern life it is accepted the dual straps on the shoulders away from the neck is an ergonomic design. Instrument manufacturers seem to be slow to take this up, A bass hung over both shoulders is better than a bass over one. You only have to look at the sport of Golf in all its forms from amatuer to professional to see how they now carry weight (golf bags).
From schools bags for children to walkers and hikers, to the armed services, duel straps are the way to hold weight. So if we are going to stay using one over the shoulder, then let it be a wide strap, and away from the neck, that's what i'm saying....try it you'll be surprised and if you can't move it... i would guess wrong strap.

The waste of time is a long discussion of a 4" wide strap on a shoulder that's only 8" wide. Assuming nobody has it hanging off their shoulder or riding up their neck their really isn't much room for error here. I'm not sure there is any good reason for written guidlines. We're not talking about 50 lbs worth of golf clubs we're talking about a bass that in many cases is less then 10lbs.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

The waste of time is a long discussion of a 4" wide strap on a shoulder that's only 8" wide. Assuming nobody has it hanging off their shoulder or riding up their neck their really isn't much room for error here. I'm not sure there is any good reason for written guidlines. We're not talking about 50 lbs worth of golf clubs we're talking about a bass that in many cases is less then 10lbs.

That weight is increased due to the parameters of bass, weight, technique, physical make up,etc. Now 10 lbs may nort seem a lot but in the long term it will depending on usage. What we are looking for is dissapation of weight over sufface area, So 10bs, if make in to a steel rod with a tip of say 1/16th of an inch sitting on your neck, that will hurt, where as a tube of the same weight but with a tip much larger and wider, won't hurt so much. The smaller tipped one may even puncture the skin. Today with extended range basses 10lb is nothing. Not much room to get it wrong, well yes, because the parameters are tight, you have to make sure you get it right.

So never a waste of time, but more a change of attitude, to match that of some strap makers who are taking it seriously.

http://www.adirondackguitar.com/straps/levy_m29.htm

http://www.idare2.com/instructionsguitar.html

http://www.neckup.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

All with reducing load, even the neck up has it uses for some bass players tha sit a lot.

Good information....................never a waste of time.

[Tropic]

Only on TB can a bassist become a physicist and a neurologist in 2 seconds.

I don't really use a strap so I don't have the problem..yet...

But when I do I guess I keep it the same length but I don't worry about it much.

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

That weight is increased due to the parameters of bass, weight, technique, physical make up,etc. Now 10 lbs may nort seem a lot but in the long term it will depending on usage. What we are looking for is dissapation of weight over sufface area, So 10bs, if make in to a steel rod with a tip of say 1/16th of an inch sitting on your neck, that will hurt, where as a tube of the same weight but with a tip much larger and wider, won't hurt so much. The smaller tipped one may even puncture the skin. Today with extended range basses 10lb is nothing. Not much room to get it wrong, well yes, because the parameters are tight, you have to make sure you get it right.

So never a waste of time, but more a change of attitude, to match that of some strap makers who are taking it seriously.

http://www.adirondackguitar.com/straps/levy_m29.htm

http://www.idare2.com/instructionsguitar.html

http://www.neckup.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

All with reducing load, even the neck up has it uses for some bass players tha sit a lot.

Good information....................never a waste of time.

Dude it's a strap. Next thing you know there are going to be users manuals for belts....Maybe we need a change of attitude and people should go back to wearing suspenders. They do a much better job of supporting your pants, especially today with the amount of credit cards, cell phones, i pods and keys people carry in their pockets and all. Call in the engineers

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

Dude it's a strap. Next thing you know there are going to be users manuals for belts....Maybe we need a change of attitude and people should go back to wearing suspenders. They do a much better job of supporting your pants, especially today with the amount of credit cards, cell phones, i pods and keys people carry in their pockets and all. Call in the engineers

LOL i hear ya Peter, but all you have done is deflect the information, with points that bear no relevance to the original point, which suggests to me you can find no reason to dispute the validity of the information of hanging a bass....yet

[peterpalmieri]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

LOL i hear ya Peter, but all you have done is deflect the information, with points that bear no relevance to the original point, which suggests to me you can find no reason to dispute the validity of the information of hanging a bass....yet

My point......ahh forget it...I don't have one...

Please go on I want to know all the important information that is relevent to me placing my strap properly on my shoulder because I am just not sure I'm doing it right...

[PDQbass]

Stand in front of a mirror, strap on bass and adjust height of bass to attain the position that looks the coolest, whilst imagining you are on a Festival stage rocking out to 40,000 people. Run through a few of your best moves, sprint several yards in either direction and readjust length of strap if required. Re-check in mirror, mark strap and spend a couple of hours working through your trickiest bass lines, acclimatising to your new strap length. Job done

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by peterpalmieri

My point......ahh forget it...I don't have one...

Please go on I want to know all the important information that is relevent to me placing my strap properly on my shoulder because I am just not sure I'm doing it right...

LOL But you have no point in it, so why would i

[Blunt]

I used to play regularly in cover bands three times a week. I had an old fender strap. I had major muscle problems in my shoulder. I switched to a wider strap. The problem disappeared.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Blunt

I used to play regularly in cover bands three times a week. I had an old fender strap. I had major muscle problems in my shoulder. I switched to a wider strap. The problem disappeared.

Good point raised here for me would be, has anyone ever changed to a wider strap and found no benefit?
In all the posts they mainly relate to the bass in height, as i said earlier this was never a height thread but more a position on the shoulder.
When the focus is on one issue other issues get missed such as "what are the functions of the shoulders".
Now we can all agree that the hanging of a bass from them is not one of them.
So how does this adaptation of hanging a bass affect the shoulders function?
Now myself and others consider the functions of the hands as a line through the arms, shoulders, and to the brain. With that we also accept that any problem in these areas can affect the hands.
Then there is the inclusion on balance, that is the bodies balace not the basses. How does the body stay up-right? Why does it not fall over when the arms are extended in front of it, or we bend or lean over?
Why when we hang additional weight does it not fall over?
If we take that additional weight as a bass, then as a rule we add weight to the top of the body structure, so in effect it is a snap loading of weight, that adds to make the body top heavy.
Again why does the body structure not fall over?
If you move and swing the guitar, it now becomes an ever changing weight in the top of the body structure.
To me strap height is about lessening this effect, more about moving the load from a top heavy position to a one with a lower centre of gravity.
So just on these basic principals, problems like sore shoulders can be helped purely by strap position.
When height is talked about the focus it is usually about the wrists, never about the over all effects on the body.
Many in reality, in protection of their hands with straight wrists, could be causing damage elsewhere, remember that i consider that line from the hand to the brain as all part of the funcion of the hand, as damage along this line can effect the use of the hand. So this extra weight is taken on by the body and a good strap and strap position will lessen its effects by working with the bodies proprioception, so answering the questions posed earlier on the balance issues.
Now as it has been said "its just a strap" but as usual there is more involved if you look outside your focus, and the focus of a strap will tend to be height, because that relates to this focus on wrists, rather than some of the other things i have mentioned.

[chondro776]

I play my bass high.
My strap is also pretty short.

*rimshot*
Be sure to tip your waitress...

As a former guitard (well I still play, but don't even own one), I worshiped Vernon Reid and Tom Morello, so playing w/ a short strap was cool, contrary to the opinion of the Green Day crowd.

I like my bass to be an extension of my ribcage. I would play with my strap almost as short as I could get it on both an Ibanez and a G&L tribby.

However, when I switched to a Warwick 'vette (short horns) I was forced to learn how to play the instrument lower. The ergonomics are completely different (IMO). Good on one hand (literally) and bad on the other hand (again, literally).

What I learned, (and the point of my contribution) is that while 'muscle memory' is a great thing, for me, I find it liberating to be able to play in a variety of positions.
Your muscle memory is more flexible than you realize.
It can get even better when you stretch it.

Sure, I play some things better in some positions than others. Likely I am the only one that can tell (and other musicians, maybe).

[Blunt]

Dude strap problems are usually resolved not by strap height but by strap width. Read the post doh.