Dark Woody Sound...like maybe Paul Chambers

[E2daGGurl]

I'm starting with a Fender Jazz Deluxe and a Mesa Boogie walkabout.

I'd like any sort of suggestion on how to get a woodier sound. I guess I should post eventually on the strings subforum, but for now, I'd like to hear theory and practice of how to sound more dark and woody on walking bass lines.

Any help at all will lead to some improvement in my playing, as it always does. I'm still learning about pots and dials and such, not to mention right hand technique.

[Beast]

Didn't Paul Chambers play upright?

I just took the dive into upright, and am loving every bit of it. It forces you to take a look at the sloppiness you have on electric, and fix it. It'll give you that sound your looking for as well.

[MacheteSteve]

+1 , also try a nice earthy fretless, with a nice maccasar ebony fretboard or something like that. also maybe mess around with your eq abit, to really get that double bass sorta sound with the strings.

[E2daGGurl]

Yes, he did play upright. That's what I'm asking. I can hear myself getting closer to sounding upright-y (in comparison to sounding not-upright-y) but I'm not sure what i'm doing to get there (yes, I'm that uncoordinated/uneducated).

I do want to get an upright, and in meantime, to sound more like one, if I can. Is the "sloppiness" we're speaking of from the increased sustain? So less gain, right?

Any more specific suggestions about the eq? Chambers is playing acoustic but amplified, at least I think so.

I don't know what I'm saying. I'm going off to look at more pictures of double basses, can't afford one at the moment. Still curious. Chambers is said to have switched back and forth to electric but of course that doesn't mean he sounded the same - need to listen more.

Thanks for the tip about the nice earthy fretless. I do drive past a guitar center every day...ha...just lookin' is fun.

[sbassface]

You have great influences for the sound you want to get. Also you have great gear. You'll get an upright at some point and in that case if you have smaller hands don't try to sound like Paul Chambers because he had big hands. Listen to his lines and learn, of course. One thing you might try on electric is playing closer to the neck pickup or even rest your thumb on the edge of the neck. Is your J bass maple or rosewood fingerboard? Playing more towards the bridge pickup and leaving it on full, and turning down the neck pickup gives you a more jaco sound. Sometimes playing less notes can also give you a more upright sound, you don't have to play a lot of notes just because you can on an electric easier than on an upright. With the right hand(in general, on electric) I like to let my right hand thumb float by keeping it close to the hand, maybe touching the body when I playing the e string and then rest it on the e string for other notes on other strings. Don't know if that made sense. It's a feel thing and a relaxed hand position kind of thing. Play quarter notes no matter how dumb it sounds just groove on them. count in your head or out loud, 1-2-3-4, you'll walk better IMO.

[E2daGGurl]

It has a rosewood fretboard. Thanks, Sbassface, for the closer to the bridge/pickup advice - that's what I'm looking for. Also, thanks for the encouragement to keep counting - yes, that's what I'm trying to do (count in my head, stay steady). Gives me a lot more appreciation for what Jaco was trying to do.

I need quite a bit of practice, but it makes it more fun if I think I'm getting better on tone, too.

[E2daGGurl]

You all helped a lot. Didn't sound like Paul Chambers, of course, but was closer to the double bass sound I'm wanting. Didn't sound jazzy and deep enough - but that's in my fingers, methinks. The little bluegrass set we play sounded more robust, but I have a ways to go in my jazz technique - can see so many more possibilities though, thanks!

[msprong]

Cute! Perhaps this helps: I am a double bass player who's picked up bass guitar later on. When playing jazz tunes on the BG, I simply play as if it were a double bass. I pluck the strings sort of with the side of my index finger rather than with my fingertips. Now here's the trick: don't just stick out your index finger (James Jamerson style "hook") but move the rest of your fingers with it (Ray Brown style). That actually gives you the punch that resembles a double bass a bit. Just try it, you'll be surprised.

Nothing beats a real doghouse for jazz though ;-)

[Mushroo]

Well Paul Chambers was playing an unamplified upright bass with enormous hands, so you'll never sound exactly like that with a bass guitar!

I'd suggest plucking closer to the neck, perhaps putting some foam under the strings at the bridge to mute the sound a bit. In terms of left hand technique, most upright players of that era (don't know if PC falls into this category) used mainly fingers 1-2-4 with only a 3-fret "span" and moved their hand around more. If you try that approach, you might find your note choice becomes slightly more "uprighty". Also I would recommend flatwound or tapewound strings.

[jonbass]

Flatwounds might help, and playing with your thumb can sometimes fatten up the tone more like an upright. The decay on upright is very diffrent than electric so it may also help to try dampening the strings near the bridge with a piece of foam a la Bob Babbitt.

[dvh]

Assumption: you are using flatwounds?

Keep your volume down to cut down on the audible sustain.

Use open strings wherever possible

[kraigo]

Foam under the strings near the bridge. Play over the end of the fingerboard. Fretless. Bartolini pickups (which I typically don't like, but are right for this application), pluck with your index and middle fingers simultaneously, fewer notes strategically placed, use open strings more, attitude attitude attitude (become an actor playing the part)...

Just some thoughts.

KO

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by msprong

Cute! Perhaps this helps: I am a double bass player who's picked up bass guitar later on. When playing jazz tunes on the BG, I simply play as if it were a double bass. I pluck the strings sort of with the side of my index finger rather than with my fingertips. Now here's the trick: don't just stick out your index finger (James Jamerson style "hook") but move the rest of your fingers with it (Ray Brown style). That actually gives you the punch that resembles a double bass a bit. Just try it, you'll be surprised.

Nothing beats a real doghouse for jazz though ;-)

+1 on both counts. This is the proper answer. Yeah, using a flatwound bass will work well, as will plucking by the neck, but to really sound like an upright, the best thing is to play like an upright player would. When you do that, the bass you use is immaterial.

[E2daGGurl]

Still working on it - it sounds way more the way I was hoping it would. Really fun, too, using a different right hand (finger) approach.

All of this helps a lot - don't have flatwounds yet, would really like to try them.

[ihassiphilus]

The volume-thing is huge as far as creating the upright tone you want; try not to turn it above three-quarters. You'll notice plucking on the neck creates a hollow sound as well. Also, keep playing below the fifth fret where possible. Leave the EQ flat or everything at 12 o'clock on the amp.

[VroomVroom]

I often try to emulate an upright. There's no mistaking the tone, but if you can capture the vibe, that gets you closer. I have no doubt you can accomplish this on your axe. As others have mentioned, you can try playing closer to the neck than the bridge, at the same time using more of your finger (than just the tip) to "pronounce" the note. Here's another approach - use the palm-mute technique. Your palm will take away some of the attack, while using the side of your thumb will add more back in because of the "fatness" of striking each note. While you're experimenting with your right hand (assuming you're right-handed, of course), also work on your left hand technique, namely striving for longer notes.

The thing, in my experience, to strive for is that flowering tone shape that comes from the resonance of an upright. You've got the attack, of course, but a really big bloom followed by a longer decay.

[E2daGGurl]

It's working!

Well, the palm muting needs some work. But listeners are noticing and I'm so excited to be sounding so much closer to where I want to be - lots to think about.

[Snarf]

Jeez.

If you want to have a sound like Paul Chambers, learn to play DB and get an old European carved bass.

You can try to fool yourself into believing an electric bass can sound like a DB, but it will never sound the same. I don't get all these people on this forum who can't accept that the physics of these two instruments are COMPLETELY different. How you attack the string, how your hand interacts with the fingerboard, how your body position affects how you follow through with a note, the much greater range of dynamics possible with DB, etc etc etc.

[E2daGGurl]

Originally Posted by Snarf

Jeez.

If you want to have a sound like Paul Chambers, learn to play DB and get an old European carved bass.

You can try to fool yourself into believing an electric bass can sound like a DB, but it will never sound the same. I don't get all these people on this forum who can't accept that the physics of these two instruments are COMPLETELY different. How you attack the string, how your hand interacts with the fingerboard, how your body position affects how you follow through with a note, the much greater range of dynamics possible with DB, etc etc etc.

Jeez, Snarf, maybe I should be more clear. For a variety of reasons - I don't yet have a DB and won't have one in the future.

If you don't find it interesting or fun to try and sound jazz double bass-y on a jazz bass, that's fine - but I do. That's what I want to do.

I suppose you're an expert on how an electric bass sounds in and of itself, without reference to any other instruments, and I respect that. But how about a little respect for someone who wants to do more than one thing on an electric bass? It's fun to produce different tones and those tones are integral to my electric bass playing. Having a wider range of tones/styles increases the kinds of music I can play - and the different kinds of people I can play with.

BTW, to those who were helpful - thanks again. I'm working a lot more on right hand/index finger stuff now. Seems to me there's a lot of subtlety in the approach where you use more (or less) of the side of your index finger.

I'll likely never manage a DB, for various reasons. If Snarf would post links to a few pieces where he thinks electric bass is supposed to sound like in its natural form, I'd like to take a listen. Would be an interesting reference point - somehow, I keep listening to electric bass that has a dark, woodier sound.

[Phil Smith]

An electric bass doesn't sound like a double bass despite what you do with your hands.

I don't think Snarf was saying you shouldn't attempt to get other tones out of your electric bass.