Demystifying Metal styles, how to make fingerstyle playing heard in Metal

[rumbler]

Originally Posted by diechris

When Losers Say It's Over With You Know That It's A Lie. The Gods Made Heavy Metal And It's Never Gonna Die!

lm/

[Gawd]

I love heavy metal.
not so much into death metal, mostly because a lot of it is just a little too cheesy for me to get into.
although I'm always completely open to anything.
I'm more into hardcore, mathcore, grindcore, you know, stuff that ends with core usually lol...

check out the bassist from between the buried and me, Dan Briggs, he's not very famous, and doesn't stick out much in the band, but he's a beast. holds his own and is able to make the heaviest songs groove.

[improvpwnd]

Great post. I agree with everything you said 100%, but I think you may have left out some important points such as: light touch and playing sitting down classical guitar style...

Made me wanna practice...off I go...

[enderwaves]

Originally Posted by improvpwnd

Great post. I agree with everything you said 100%, but I think you may have left out some important points such as: light touch and playing sitting down classical guitar style...

Made me wanna practice...off I go...

hey ace, you can't play metal sitting down. period.

this was an excellent read. the majority of my playing career has been in fast punk and metal bands, and i wish someone would've clued me in on some of this stuff 10 years ago. boosting mids is the easiest thing in the world to help cut through, but i keep going to shows and seeing dudes rocking the eq smiley face. your post did inspire me to work on my fingerstyle this afternoon, and boy am i rusty.

i recently watched some new metallica rockumentary on the vh1 classic, and it includes rob trujillo's (spelling?) tryouts. they highlight him basically alternate picking with just his fore finger, lightning fast. it is totally awesome, and was one of those things i would've never even thought of. now if i could just get my fingers to work that way...

[jenderfazz]

I'm a pick player in my hardcore/metal band, but I can definitely relate to your EQ suggestions. I prefer heavy-gauge strings for picking (although I used to have slightly lighter-gauge strings in the past which were good at getting the "clank" fingerstyle, but were too undefined with a pick).

EQ-wise, I cut the low-lows (maybe under 60-80Hz) to give room for the bass drum and take away some of the congestion in the very low frequencies. I boost my low-mids to emphasize my fundamental chunk (say around 200-400 Hz) and cut the glassy mids (500-800 Hz) to avoid honkiness. A boost in high-mids (1kHz) is nice to get some high growl that is audible through the mix (right below the guitar frequencies) and treble is then cut.

2 notes: First, try not to deviate too much from flat on your EQ. boosting or cutting too much is not a good thing. Second, I'm not 100% sure of the exact frequencies boosted/cut, but this should give you an idea of what gets me quite audible (yet supportive) in my band's mix. My graphic EQ is practically an elongated "m" with lows, mids, and highs a bit cut and low and high mids slightly boosted.

[El-Bob]

best thread ever

[pablomigraine]

Originally Posted by El-Bob

best thread ever

awww gee

[DeanT]

I think you have spent way too much time thinking about this.

Death metal is not my thing. But I'm sure there are some great bassists in the genre. But bass playing is about tone and melody and feel -- and less about speed.

This is not a criticism of DM bassists, just an observation.

[K2000]

Great thread.

Do me a favor and tell me which bands these guys play for? I bet it would be useful for other folks, too... I need to get up to date with some of these bands....

Flo Mournier
Alex Webster (Cannibal Corpse)
Eric Langlois
Derek Boyer
Sean Malone
Stefan Fimmers
Steve Digiorgio

This can help make a nice Suggested Listening list.

Thanks.

[jollygiantchris]

Originally Posted by pablomigraine

awww gee

i agree I'm not sure who you are but I'm a bass player trying to get into a heavier band and your tips about getting your speed up are great and I've been doing them since friday and i already feel a bit faster I'm sure after a month or two i can officially burn my picks which I'm not particularly good at or nor ever felt comfortable playing with at high speed anyways

and the eq section is very helpful!

[jollygiantchris]

Originally Posted by DeanT

I think you have spent way too much time thinking about this.

Death metal is not my thing. But I'm sure there are some great bassists in the genre. But bass playing is about tone and melody and feel -- and less about speed.

This is not a criticism of DM bassists, just an observation.

thats not accurate depending on the genre and speed is an important factor in metal for obvious reasons

many DM and metal bassists have great melody and feel while playing at high speeds this thread is about getting the proper tone in the mix while playing fingerstyle and some techniques for acheiving higher playspeeds

the fact of the matter is you can play fast or you can play slow but if your note selection sucks you still suck but that being said if you can't play fast you can't play metal and you certainly can't play death metal :P

please don't turn this thread into a discussion of speed versus melody and feel the majority of the people who will be helped by this thread most likely despise the music you probably listen to

[Lorenzini]

If you think jazz and players such as Patittuci are just about speed, you're so wrong.

It's about what notes you play. It's about the feel and dynamics and musicianship you display, while communicating to an audience.

Deathmetal is ... not about those things. It's more about death and moshing and ridiculous lyrics.

[Captain Chaos]

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

If you think jazz and players such as Patittuci are just about speed, you're so wrong.

It's about what notes you play. It's about the feel and dynamics and musicianship you display, while communicating to an audience.

Deathmetal is ... not about those things. It's more about death and moshing and ridiculous lyrics.

Well....who doesn't like moshing? I do.

My string gauge is 43-65-80-110. would that be considered low, medium or high tension?

[Gawd]

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

If you think jazz and players such as Patittuci are just about speed, you're so wrong.

It's about what notes you play. It's about the feel and dynamics and musicianship you display, while communicating to an audience.

Deathmetal is ... not about those things. It's more about death and moshing and ridiculous lyrics.

says the person who is obviously bias to the genre.
how can you speak with such authority when you obviously haven't taken the time to learn about the genre in depth?

it's like someone saying "jazz is just about playing walking lines with crazy chords and doing heroin and having a raspy voice"
we know that there is more to it than that.

to try and sum up a genre of music in such simple ways is ignorant and reflects badly of any musicians personality.

[pablomigraine]

Originally Posted by DeanT

I think you have spent way too much time thinking about this.
....... just an observation.

Originally Posted by K2000

Great thread.Do me a favor and tell me which bands these guys play for? I bet it would be useful for other folks, too... I need to get up to date with some of these bands....

Flo Mournier CRYPTOPSY (Drums)
Alex Webster (Cannibal Corpse)
Eric Langlois CRYPTOPSY (Bass.... also true friend and awesome guy all around)
Derek Boyer SUFFOCATION
Sean Malone CYNIC, AGHORA, GORDIAN KNOT, others
Stefan Fimmers NECROPHAGIST
Steve Digiorgio DEATH, SADUS, OVERKILL, TESTAMENT, others

This can help make a nice Suggested Listening list.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by jollygiantchris

i agree I'm not sure who you are but I'm a bass player trying to get into a heavier band and your tips about getting your speed up are great and I've been doing them since friday and i already feel a bit faster I'm sure after a month or two i can officially burn my picks which I'm not particularly good at or nor ever felt comfortable playing with at high speed anyways

and the eq section is very helpful!

Thanks!! I intended this post for the younger players or people new to the style, and I'm glad to hear its been of help. Again the best things I can recommend are A) Surround yourself with great players and take lessons.... and not from just anyone, take the time to find someone who has experience in the styles you're looking for. Also, anyone with extensive jazz and classical training is just as good or better. B) Test out your settings and technique WITH YOUR BANDMATES and get their feedback. C) A good player can make any bass sound good, but good basses make good playing easier, and there are a load of fantastic basses under $800...

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

If you think jazz and players such as Patittuci are just about speed, you're so wrong.

It's about what notes you play. It's about the feel and dynamics and musicianship you display, while communicating to an audience.

Deathmetal is ... not about those things. It's more about death and moshing and ridiculous lyrics.

You are precisely half right, and we cant blame you for the other half, as I made note of this sort of thing in the second paragraph of my post.

Yes, most death metal is about stupid dogkilling mothereating lyrics. And most rap is talentless redundant yelling into a mic over cut & pasted music, and most pop is hollow cherry drivel, and most contemporary jazz is mindless unsubstantive noodling by players desperate to make an elaborate theater of self............ each of these statements holds an equal amount of truth.

However, a small percentage, often a very small percentage of all of these is substantive, musical, inspiring and often brilliant. Many "Death Metal" bands entire repertoire never EVER steps outside of the boundaries of the basic tenants of Jazz and especially classical music as is the case with say Cryptopsy or Dimmu Borgor. Dimmu for example writes music involving a 5 piece band, plus an entire orchestra and choir... often broaching on full out opera...plus they are the #1 selling rock act in Europe with over 20 million albums sold to date, I might add... Other Death Metal or hybrid bands like Cynic or Electro Quarterstaff for example are comprised entirely of classically trained masters who have published work on theory and even teach at major music schools. Recently Jazz / fusion / improv luminary Marco Milliman just joined Necrophagist. Look up his discography and have a listen. The problem for most people is this often visionary musicianship is fed to them in the medium they are unwilling to explore, like Mom and Pops refusing to listen to KISS, ...... heavily distorted downtuned guitars and extremely rapid fire drummer under heavy amplification. This does not make it Not Music....

The first part of your statement is accurate, however I meant to imply not that their primary gift was speed, but to illustrate that only the very talented jazz players can or do play at comparable speeds, in any medium, and to illustrate the close ties that much of this music has with jazz. Unfortunately, some people would never be able to know it unless they were presented with sheet music, because their desire to avoid and dismiss unconventional music is so strong......

Originally Posted by Captain Chaos

Well....who doesn't like moshing? I do.

My string gauge is 43-65-80-110. would that be considered low, medium or high tension?

Thats hybrid Gauge, or heavy bottom, lite top.... Tension refers to the amount of force the string exerts on the neck when tuned to pitch.... gauge is the measurement of the string's width.

[Corbow]

Hey, this is about music - about the feeling. Im bass player in a death metal band and in latin-jazz fusion band. I love both styles so much and after 15 years Im still having hard times to play these styles. People who can not open their minds to observe another aproach to things should not even read this forum. There is bad jazz and good jazz and good death metal and bad death metal ...and same to other styles. I cant understand how this great thread is moving to the discussion about speed or styles. Lets say that there are always two ends of a rope..and both of them have a function.

[KwinS]

Subscribed.

[KwinS]

Very nice job explaining the techniques!

It saddens me when people who are "anti" anything in these forums has to come and bash topics out of ignorance.

...this coming from a guy who lists Steve Harris AND Jon Gagan as primary influences...

[El-Bob]

Originally Posted by pablomigraine

awww gee

i would've said more last night, but this thread inspired me to go try out your suggestions. I've been playing for just over a year, and have spent about 2/3 of that time learning to pick with 3 fingers, and while it gave me more endurance i haven't been able to make it consistent or fast. simply down tuning, picking near the neck, and lowering the action has immediately allowed for noticeably faster and more consistent playing. I can't wait to try your EQ suggestions in a band setting (probably tomorrow), even though we're more of a prog/power metal style band i think you're EQ suggestions will still work very well.

and last but not least, thank you for some of the best advice I've ever heard regarding fast finger style playing. Even though there are alot of finger style players in metal, I find that I've been alone in learning this technique until now.

[rumbler]

Hey all to are reading this thread.

I am a death metal bassist who gladly uses three fingers. My guitarist writes alot of short burst licks in what he calls triplet sixteenths which is essentially 6 notes per beat. We do these at about 135-145 and he says its basically as fast as playing normal sixteenths at about 210. Now I am wondering if i should just play these licks half time. Webster says he doesnt remolo past about 170 to 180 even for short bursts. So I am wondering if it is even possible to tremolo that fast or should I just play half speed to sound more solid.

When I try to match all six notes I usually only get four in because it is so fast.

Any tips? at what speeds should I stop trying to double and just play half the speed. Im not for being lazy and I want to know what is considered realistic speeds and what is not because I do not want to play eigth notes my whole life

Thanks
Andrew