Dig in and turn down, or play light and turn up?

HeavyMrEd19 · #1 06-11-2011, 08:21 AM

Hello fellow TB'ers

I've been bothered by this recent little discovery and I would like some opinions on it... Maybe some pros and cons to each or personal experiences with these things...

As far as what I have been doing for the 8-9 years I've been playing bass, I've preferred getting aggressive with the strings. Just hammering in with my right hand as far as I possibly could to get as much energy and power into my playing as I could. I think it just shows a certain fire in playing when you're really getting into it and making those strings flex...

But last night, I saw something that made me think for a bit. I was flipping through Youtube and heard an interview from Eric Bass of Shinedown (Respectable bass player, does well in his band, so I thought I'd give it a listen) And he said something to the effect of "I should really work on jumping hard, but playing light" and went on to say that it yielded a better tone or something like that.

So I thought, who else does that? Well, Gary Willis of Triphasic has that ramp on his bass so he doesn't dig into the strings too much... I've noticed Billy Sheehan doesn't look like he's digging in, per say. The list goes on and on.

So is there any grain of truth to that "Play softer, and turn up. It'll give you a better tone"? Or should I just stick to beating the ever-living crap out of my bass night after night and it won't make a difference either way?

Comments, opinions, rants, all allowed. I wanna know what everyone thinks on this one.

Thanks

-HME19

JimmyM · #2 06-11-2011, 08:50 AM

I think there's a point where digging in gives you diminishing returns, yes. I like to dig in, but compared to some people's version of digging in, I'm barely touching the strings

For the most part, though, lightening up is the way to go. It's a lot less clacky, your hand doesn't get as tired, and you can play faster (if that's important to you, and since you mentioned Gary Willis and Billy Sheehan, I think it probably is). Almost all really good bassists I know have a pretty light touch.

HeavyMrEd19 · #3 06-11-2011, 08:56 AM

Jimmy,

Yeah, I was thinking of doing the same thing. Speed isn't the most important thing to me, but I do know I need to lighten up on my playing... My hands get tired out pretty quick after about 3 full hour sets of heavy playing, and I noticed Sheehan and Willis play pretty long sets with complicated bass lines and they make it look easy... like they could go on hours and hours after their sets are over... That's probably the most important thing to me right now, second only to cleaning up my playing

Thanks for the reply

Floyd Eye · #4 06-11-2011, 08:59 AM

I definitely fall into the "Turn it up and play lighter" camp. I found that it is real convenient to be able to boost your volume by digging in harder. The only thing you gotta watch is pedals. If you kick in an OD you have to really be aware of where it's at volume wise. Of course you'll figure it out after the first note when you shear the heads off the entire front row. lol

Savage_Dreams · #5 06-11-2011, 09:02 AM

i think billy sheehan digs in more than it looks, just with super low action. steve harris is someone with the very light & fast attack though. neither way is better than the other, they will both give you very different tones. personal choice. i personally hit very hard to give me the tone i want.

as for the shinedown guy, work on jumping hard? what the hell is that about...

rms2 · #6 06-11-2011, 09:06 AM

I was fortunate to study with Gary Willis a little years ago and one of the first things he did was have me see how lightly I could press a note to the fret with my left hand and have it still sound. With medium or low action it takes very little pressure. We also did this with the right hand and worked on right hand technique as well. He showed me that you can actually get better, growlier tone with a light touch, and let your amp do the work of amplifying the signal. There are many advantages not the least of which is decreasing chances of strain injuries to your hands and wrists. This holds true even if you play quarter notes all night long. If you search Youtube you can find some of Willis' clinics where he demonstrates this.

JimmyM · #7 06-11-2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage_Dreams

i think billy sheehan digs in more than it looks, just with super low action. steve harris is someone with the very light & fast attack though. neither way is better than the other, they will both give you very different tones. personal choice. i personally hit very hard to give me the tone i want.

as for the shinedown guy, work on jumping hard? what the hell is that about...

Entertainment, which is the name of the game.

**Faderoktopus** · #8 06-11-2011, 09:18 AM

I'm not gonna vote on this as both options yield useful tones for different styles, but in general I prefer playing lighter in order to have more dynamic options.

BTW, why isn't there an option for turning up AND digging in?

bassbrad · #9 06-11-2011, 09:35 AM

IMO it's not an either or but somewhere in the middle, I want enough volume to play dynamically but still dig in for growl or punch.

HeavyMrEd19 · #10 06-11-2011, 09:35 AM

Thanks for the tip on the pedals, Floyd Eye

SavageDreams, Yeah, I was in the same boat, but my hands are really getting torn up. I can't afford to hack on my bass to the point that they'll be hurting for the next day or so

rms2 - I'll definitely look up his clinics/videos. I haven't really looked into them, but I will now.

Faderoktopus, Yeah, they do. But I agree with you on the tonal differences... and yeah, lol... how silly of me not to put that on the poll? haha.

Thanks for all your feedback folks... this is really helpful

**BullHorn** · #11 06-11-2011, 02:26 PM

Real men dig in.

Although, I guess being a man is bad for my hands' health.. :<

MysticMichael · #12 06-11-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavyMrEd19

So is there any grain of truth to that "Play softer, and turn up. It'll give you a better tone"?

"Grain of truth"? Uh, yeah...

I've been advocating this literally for years - with limited results, at best. Seems that for the young punks who equate sheer physical force with superior musicianship, virtually no amount of reason and rationale will get the point through their heads...until they start to experience carpal tunnel syndrome, inflamed ligaments, muscle spasms - and ultimately, loss of function altogether.

From a musical standpoint, of course, using a lower set-up on the instrument, playing with a lighter touch...and allowing one's amp to do the hard work, allows one to play with much more dynamic range - to cite just one advantage. After all, if you're slamming on the bass all night long, on virtually every tune, where do you go when you really need to take it up a notch, for emphasis?

Duh!

MM

paganjack · #13 06-11-2011, 04:42 PM

In the last few months my touch has lightened up drastically. My bandmates still think I play really aggressively, but frankly it's a lot lighter than it used to be. You can indeed play wayyyy faster with a gentle touch. And yeah, it is less strain on your hands, but that's never really been an issue for me. Stretching prevents that pain.

Savage_Dreams · #14 06-11-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Entertainment, which is the name of the game.

if i want to see to people 'jumping hard' i'll watch gymnastics. thats not entertainment.

TOOL460002 · #15 06-11-2011, 11:45 PM

The only thing where I really beat up my bass is slap. Everything else is really light. I also have plenty of gain to spare in my setup. Play as light as your gear allows. That's my policy.

**Syco_bass** · #16 06-11-2011, 11:49 PM

Turn it up and play lighter. Dig in when it's needed and appropriate. Your fingers and wrists will thank you for it when you get older.

This takes a lot of practice. If you are not careful or used to it, you will end up playing too loud.

Good luck

FretlessMainly · #17 06-11-2011, 11:54 PM

Not surprised that I'm in the minority. I always opt for turn down and play like a beast. To me tone comes more from technique than from electronics. 30 years on and I've never really disappointed myself this way.

TapyTap · #18 06-12-2011, 12:01 AM

I'm pretty sure that you can add Jeff Berlin's name to the "crank up the amp and play with a lighter touch" list of pro players.

...plus, playing with a lighter touch can help to avoid "pitch dive" on the strings.

Epitaph04 · #19 06-12-2011, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savage_Dreams

if i want to see to people 'jumping hard' i'll watch gymnastics. thats not entertainment.

Yeah...gymnastics are pretty boring.

oldcatfish · #20 06-12-2011, 06:54 AM

I think that each has advantages.

Playing with a light touch does allow more speed and endurance...but the big disadvantage is that with the light touch required, some extra unwanted fret noise has the potential to be more noticeable.

Digging in is less likely to have unwanted noises because the "attacks" have to be more intentional...but it can limit your speed and endurance.

Personally, I use a little of both. My action is set medium high, and my amp is usually turned up at a moderately loud volume.