digging in more for pretty much no reason/action

hernameisrio · #1 11-06-2011, 10:43 PM

I've noticed that now that I've been playing every day for at least two hours, the harder I play...the more I dig in, especially with my fretting hand. Which seems backwards somehow. I don't know if it's because I'm building up the strength to be able to do that and now it's like I don't know my own strength, or if I just find playing bass to be so exciting that I put all my energy into it, or what...but it kinda sucks because I start to get a slight pain in the center of my wrist right near where my palm starts. Not good!!!

So then I started wondering if the action on my Ibanez (SB900)has somehow crept up again, perhaps due to temperature change, and I'm just [subconsciously] compensating for this? It really does seem like it's a tiny bit higher all of a sudden... I suddenly feel like I have to put a lot more pressure on the strings to be able to play. I've also noticed that it goes flat between tunings, especially the low E. Is this a potential problem, or just typical?

Anyone else have similar issues? Did you find that lowering your action as much as possible, eliminated (or at least reduced) fatigue?

JimmyM · #2 11-06-2011, 10:47 PM

It's probably the neck adjusting itself for the seasonal change. A little tightening should take care of that easy enough.

**jmattbassplaya** · #3 11-06-2011, 10:51 PM

I use to be a real digger until I stumbled across a wonderful little Youtube video by a bassist whose name I can't recall right now. In the video, the man discussed fretting and picking and how many players play too 'hard', and thus they greatly reduce the speed and dexterity of their playing. Since then, I've began to look at my playing and have worked on using the smallest amount of force needed to fret a note before getting buzz. My playing has greatly improved since I started working on this issue, and now I'm able to play a lot of those crazy jazz lines that use to seem so difficult. It might be a good idea for you to take about 15 minutes a day to work on figuring how much force you really need to play.

hernameisrio · #4 11-06-2011, 11:21 PM

Yeah, I think it's also a stylistic thing...I've been playing with this punk/garage band and having to really push to feel like I'm being heard. And it's really not my style and not in my nature to do that, that's why I'm so surprised that I caught myself doing it for the past few days. I've noticed that if I turn up a bit louder and practice with headphones, I don't dig in as much.

I am definitely going to take the action down on both my basses as low as it can go because I actually think I have a nice touch with my left hand when the circumstances are ideal, and I don't want to lose that due to having to compete with loud musicians who play hard[read: harder than necessary].

MustacheJoeII · #5 11-06-2011, 11:37 PM

When I was a kid, I had a not-so-good Peavey Minx amp that I blew the hell out of. I seriously broke that thing because my dad was a cheap ass and kept saying that there's nothing wrong with the amp I have, so I just layed in as hard as I could everyday. I actually found that it helped me when I started playing double bass, since I wasn't such a pussy in my hands by the age of fourteen.

Speed is over-rated. Feel, groove, note choice, ability to serve the song/group, and not being a jerk are musical qualities that will get you work on a more long-term basis.

I also find that I'm not so reliant on my amp for "my sound." It has more to do with how hard or soft I play, where I put my plectrum in relation to the pickups, left-hand jibber-jabber and some other stuff. My dynamics come from me, and not a volume knob. I turn my bass guitar knobs all the way up, set my amp EQ and then everything else is on me.

Full disclosure: During theatre gigs, I will turn my volume knob down during the acting to keep unwanted 60-cycle hum away.

sammyp · #6 11-06-2011, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

It's probably the neck adjusting itself for the seasonal change. A little tightening should take care of that easy enough.

word! it's good to understand how to tweak the truss rod as you need to do this a few times a year to keep it playing the same throughout the seasons!

hernameisrio · #7 11-06-2011, 11:52 PM

Well, I can't do it myself. Like literally, I tried and could not turn it, so I guess I have to take it in to the shop. (I NEED A BIG STRONG MAN TO DO IT, ha ha just kidding) I can really only afford one proper setup these days...the Cirrus is on its way to me and will probably take first priority.

It's funny but the more I think about this, the more I realize it has to do with who I play with...I don't do it when I'm playing alone. I have a feeling that within the next few months, a couple of the more aggressive [and occasionally sloppy] projects I'm in now, will no longer do it for me given my natural style and sensibilities. At which point I will leave to find better people to play with, and I will then be more comfortable in my own skin without having to waste energy fighting the volume wars. I have been continuously searching for other bands to play with in order to find the right fit. I resent having to blow my own head off in rehearsals just to hear myself by making a freakin 4x12 so loud that I can feel the low end pushing a draft of air against my pants legs when I stand in front of it. God help my ears, never mind my hands!

...I try not to be a jerk though.

JimmyM · #8 11-07-2011, 12:35 AM

It's a little easier to twist the truss rod nut if you loosen the strings. And if you can find a metal tube twice as long as the wrench handle, you could probably get more leverage on the wrench to twist it. Some are tougher than others, for sure.

hernameisrio · #9 11-07-2011, 07:54 AM

Well, if I can get one of my DIY Guitar Tech friends to walk me through it, maybe I'll give it another shot. I don't usually mind doing my own work on my gear, so I might as well get used to this...

Floyd Eye · #10 11-07-2011, 07:57 AM

I only dig in with my picking hand and only when I want to get my grit from my OD pedal without having to bump the volume.

hernameisrio · #11 11-07-2011, 02:52 PM

My bass teacher today pointed out that I keep my thumb pretty far over the neck and he thinks that's why I'm wearing out my fretting hand faster. I have no idea where this habit suddenly came from, but now I will be more aware of it and maybe then I'll be better off!

hernameisrio · #12 11-07-2011, 03:03 PM

...or not OVER the neck but past the middle, if that makes sense.

basslinejam · #13 11-07-2011, 03:05 PM

There is a Bob Babbitt video on youtube in which he discusses getting his tone and that his light touch is very important. It really made me focus on that and to figure out ways to keep my presence in the mix without bashing the strings (which I have had a habit of doing in the past).

Found it:Bob Babbitt with Phil Jones

henry2513 · #14 11-07-2011, 05:59 PM

Gary Willis On Finger Pressure - YouTube

Gary Willis - Progressive Bassics Pt. 2 - YouTube

Couple of good videos on playing with a light touch. I probably sound like a broken record by now but I've been playing this way for the past couple of months or so and any hand/wrist pain that I had is completely gone and I can play for much a much longer time now without any fatigue, I'm talking about 5-6 hours of almost continuous playing, executing some (what are for me) difficult passages and ideas.

carlthegroover · #15 11-07-2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Well, I can't do it myself. Like literally, I tried and could not turn it, so I guess I have to take it in to the shop. (I NEED A BIG STRONG MAN TO DO IT, ha ha just kidding) I can really only afford one proper setup these days...the Cirrus is on its way to me and will probably take first priority.

It's funny but the more I think about this, the more I realize it has to do with who I play with...I don't do it when I'm playing alone. I have a feeling that within the next few months, a couple of the more aggressive [and occasionally sloppy] projects I'm in now, will no longer do it for me given my natural style and sensibilities. At which point I will leave to find better people to play with, and I will then be more comfortable in my own skin without having to waste energy fighting the volume wars. I have been continuously searching for other bands to play with in order to find the right fit. I resent having to blow my own head off in rehearsals just to hear myself by making a freakin 4x12 so loud that I can feel the low end pushing a draft of air against my pants legs when I stand in front of it. God help my ears, never mind my hands!

...I try not to be a jerk though.

If you don't, I strongly suggest you use ear plugs. I've been doing so in the last band rehearsals and it is a world of difference for my ears, especially after three hours of blasting music.

I know this isn't part of the main thread, but I think it's important to mention nevertheless.

On topic, I have a similar situation, but it's mainly due to the fact that I don't own a decent amp, so in band practices I need to run my bass through the one of the guitarist's PA, and the speaker I use is not nearly as powerful as the guitar amps. Even when I ask them to turn the volume of a little bit, I still need to dig in. I think that will eventually be solved when I get a decent amp, and by working on the over tone and volume of the band.

When I play alone, I don't dig as much, though I now strum a bit more aggressively just for the feel of it and because it sounds powerful. But I try not to over do it because otherwise I sacrifice speed and clarity.

hernameisrio · #16 11-08-2011, 12:33 AM

Thanks for the links, guys. I do wear ear plugs, although it seems like it's barely enough. To make what actually seems like a pretty obvious statement, I don't think playing in loud, sloppy punk bands is doing me any favors. I'm just in a different headspace these days; as a bassist, I don't identify with that sensibility/aesthetic. Tonight at practice I was ******* miserable, I felt like even through a GK Backline 600 at nearly full volume through a 4x12, I could barely hear myself...that ain't right. Actually Carl, in one of my other projects, I have a similar conundrum...I haven't really found a decent cabinet that I like yet/can afford/feel like lugging around, so I've been running my head (I have a Peavey SessionBass) via XLR out to the PA, which is a Fender Passport and not super loud. But at least in that project, we take the size of the room into account and the drummer lays off a bit. I record all our rehearsals via Pro Tools with an MBox, so I've explained the importance of proper sound levels to everyone and they get it; we've actually been able to dial in a good level for such a small, untreated rehearsal room, and I think it helps everyone in the band to be able to hear this. But the punk band that I play with on Mondays...it was frustrating enough when I was starting to feel limited by them creatively, but now to feel outright crippled physically is even worse...I feel like I've been hit by a truck and I sort of want to cry right now. Anyway, sorry to complain so much about it, though I'm sure a few people on this board can relate....methinks it's time to move on to more advanced stuff and musicians who "get it." ...ya know?

henry2513 · #17 11-08-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Thanks for the links, guys. I do wear ear plugs, although it seems like it's barely enough. To make what actually seems like a pretty obvious statement, I don't think playing in loud, sloppy punk bands is doing me any favors. I'm just in a different headspace these days; as a bassist, I don't identify with that sensibility/aesthetic. Tonight at practice I was ******* miserable, I felt like even through a GK Backline 600 at nearly full volume through a 4x12, I could barely hear myself...that ain't right. Actually Carl, in one of my other projects, I have a similar conundrum...I haven't really found a decent cabinet that I like yet/can afford/feel like lugging around, so I've been running my head (I have a Peavey SessionBass) via XLR out to the PA, which is a Fender Passport and not super loud. But at least in that project, we take the size of the room into account and the drummer lays off a bit. I record all our rehearsals via Pro Tools with an MBox, so I've explained the importance of proper sound levels to everyone and they get it; we've actually been able to dial in a good level for such a small, untreated rehearsal room, and I think it helps everyone in the band to be able to hear this. But the punk band that I play with on Mondays...it was frustrating enough when I was starting to feel limited by them creatively, but now to feel outright crippled physically is even worse...I feel like I've been hit by a truck and I sort of want to cry right now. Anyway, sorry to complain so much about it, though I'm sure a few people on this board can relate....methinks it's time to move on to more advanced stuff and musicians who "get it." ...ya know?

Yikes if you're playing that loud and still having trouble hearing yourself, hurting your hands etc, yeah time to move on.