Do I NEED a fretless for jazz or is it just my hang up?

[SteveC]

Not sure where to put this but I'll try here.

I play some jazz trio/quartet gigs in town. Not high profile or anything, mostly background music at restaurants and clubs. I played fo ra long time on a fretted bass. No one said anything, they seem to like my playing, etc. There's only one person who feels I should be on an upright or other "more jazz" instrument and he's not really that insistant - I still gig with him.

Anyway, I sometimes feel I "should" be playing upright or at least fretless on these gigs - especially for ballads. So I bought a Squire VM fretless hoping it would do. Well, it really doesn't. And honsetly, I think I would only be satisfied with an EUB (Eminaence or maybe n NS WAV) or the real thing. The real thing is really financially out of the question. Even an EUB is pushing it at $2,500 for the Eminence or $1,000 for a WAV - which is really not much more than an electric fretless.

So I'm thinking until I can figure out how to afford a more "appropriate" bass (in my mind anyway) I may just dump the Squire and play a fretted bass for these gigs again. It sounds good - not like an upright - but I have a nice bass sound. And isn't that what's important?

If no one is really complaining too much, is it acceptable for me to use a fretted bass for these standard jazz gigs? I know it won't be for purists, but I'm in Grand Forks, North Dakota. Not exactly the hub of jazz, but there are some good players.

[Pacman]

Ask Steve Swallow.

[Michael Case]

I'd say play the bass YOU want to play. Don't get a fretless, electric upright, or double bass unless that is the voice YOU hear. If you're worried about the people you gig with having a problem, don't, just play good time, good notes, and a good tone and you'll be fine. Remember, you're already working and I'm sure if the people you work with wanted a double bass they could find someone who plays it.

I've been playing double bass for 11 years now and electric for 21 years (man I'm old). For the last year and a half I've been really digging the electric more than the double bass. I still practice the double bass, but electric is where my head is right now. It is my belief that the instrument doesn't matter, it's how and what you play.

[Joel S.]

Only douchebags think you need some specific type of bass for certain types of music. I saw a vid of a guy playing metal on a fretless.

I've seen MANY very good and accepted Jazz bassists who play fretted instruments.

[JTE]

Besides Steve Swallow (great call, BTW- not only a wonderful bassists, but a great musician and he always has such a perfect SOUND!) you could cite Monk Montgomery. And Ron Carter's electric has (or had- I don't know if he still has an electric) frets too.

The point is that you can go a long way to emulate the "feel" of an upright without regard to frets. Good flats (i.e. combine that Jamerson-esque thump with a definite note), controlled sustain (unless bowed a double bass doesn't sustain very long), and careful EQ. The key is the feel of the notes played and the swing much more than the exact sound of the instrument.

Don't worry about it, just play your Yamaha. You might want to keep the Squier if it sounds good (the BASS sounds good, not the electronics- if the sound of the bass is thin, clanky, and dead it's cheaper to cut one's losses and find a GOOD bass than to try to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse). That'll allow you time to get used to the bass, how it works with your amp, and how you can use it to emulate the sound of an upright.

jte

[Michael Case]

Originally Posted by JTE

Besides Steve Swallow (great call, BTW- not only a wonderful bassists, but a great musician and he always has such a perfect SOUND!) you could cite Monk Montgomery. And Ron Carter's electric has (or had- I don't know if he still has an electric) frets too.

The point is that you can go a long way to emulate the "feel" of an upright without regard to frets. Good flats (i.e. combine that Jamerson-esque thump with a definite note), controlled sustain (unless bowed a double bass doesn't sustain very long), and careful EQ. The key is the feel of the notes played and the swing much more than the exact sound of the instrument.

Don't worry about it, just play your Yamaha. You might want to keep the Squier if it sounds good (the BASS sounds good, not the electronics- if the sound of the bass is thin, clanky, and dead it's cheaper to cut one's losses and find a GOOD bass than to try to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse). That'll allow you time to get used to the bass, how it works with your amp, and how you can use it to emulate the sound of an upright.

jte

I wouldn't worry about emulating the sound of the double bass, it can't be done. I believe that too many bassists worry about trying to sound like a double bass and never sound like themselves. Attempting to cop the timbre of a double bass, players often neglect feel, note choice, transcribing, and listening. This then gives electric bassists trying to play jazz a bum rap as being more interested in gear than music.

Just work on playing good music on whatever bass YOU want to play it on.

[SteveC]

I keep trying to like the Squire, but I'm having trouble. I think I'm going to use my fretted for the next couple gigs this week and see how it goes.

[funkys**t]

If you want the fretless sound you should. Otherwise.. just work on those lines..

[Michael Case]

Originally Posted by SteveC

I keep trying to like the Squire, but I'm having trouble. I think I'm going to use my fretted for the next couple gigs this week and see how it goes.

I think playing a fretless as an attempt to emulate a double bass will lead to disappointment. If you approach the fretless as what it is a fretless electric bass guitar then you'll begin to appreciate it's voice. I went through the same feeling, I got a fretless, put flats on it, played it six times and hated the sound, put it in the case, bought a double bass. Now when I play the fretless, I love it because it offers me a color neither my fretted or my double bass offers.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Joel S.

Only douchebags think you need some specific type of bass for certain types of music.

If those douchebags are looking for a specific sound, are they still douchebags?

[mrhardy]

[quote=SteveC;6850056] There's only one person who feels I should be on an upright or other "more jazz" instrument and he's not really that insistant - I still gig with him.
QUOTE]

Is he going to provide the instrument that he feels is the proper instrument for you to be playing? Is he then going to tell you how to play said instrument, and with what feeling?

Let me put this as delicately as I can. Tell him to go breed with himself.

Play the bass that you want to play, not what somebody else tells you to play. However if you were hired to play an upright and you showed up with an electric, well, then that would be a different story, but were not telling that story here.

Why does jazz need to be on a fretless bass anyway? Just because Jaco ripped his frets out does not mean that only fretless can be played for jazz music. Don't forget, Jaco was also a little, being delicate again, nuts. Think about all the non standard instruments played in various forms of music.

Jethro tull had a lead flute player in a rock band. Some would even consider them Heavy Metal, hey they got a Grammy by beating out Metallica.

What about Zamfir? That dude totally rocks the Pan-flute.

How many bands rock the cowbell? Several, thats how many. Just ask Bruce Dickinson,..yes,..that Bruce Dickinson. Do we need more cowbell on this song? The answer is yes.

How many fretless bass players play rock? Well, I don't know the exact number, but their out there doing it.

What about Bela Fleck? Electric Banjo, nuff said.

I think you can see my point.

[Michael Case]

Originally Posted by Joel S.

Only douchebags think you need some specific type of bass for certain types of music. I saw a vid of a guy playing metal on a fretless.

Only douche bags make statements like this.

[MNAirHead]

Is it a look they're selling or a sound?

I can see both ways.

for sound.. you could go Ashbory OR fretless w/flatwounds w/pluggeed hole.

If it's looking "jazz" I can understand an upright.. I hate my upright

T.

[SteveC]

I think there's a small part that is looks, but mostly people would love to hear that upright tone. So would I. The problem is money and time. I can't really afford even a cheap upright. And really, I don't want to buy junk just to get by...I did that with the Squire. (Well, it isn't junk, but you get my meaning.) I also don't really have the time it takes to keep up chops on an upright.

I have made arrangements to use an upright when specifically hired to play one. I would never show up at an upright gig with an electric.

I just don't see an acceptable upright in my future, so I think it's going to be fretted electric for a while.

Lots of good points, by the way. Thanks for the responses.

[Michael Case]

A Squire isn't junk, but a lot of the cheaper Asian made basses are pure crapola. Plus, I think more people (SOME musicians too) only see the bass and not hear it. I think if you play what you have and play it well people overlook the bass guitar. I mean if you're swinging who cares?

[Kael]

No you don't. Nor do you NEED an EUB or even an acoustic upright. If you WANT one, then go for it. Otherwise continue to knock it out with whatever instrument you have handy. If you are still getting hired playing what you've been playing, then chances are you haven't done anything wrong yet.

Steve Swallow even plays his electric fretted with a thin twangy copper pick, and I'd take him any day over quite a few upright bassists. Actually, back when I was a full time jazz trumpet player, I used to prefer the electric bass over the upright in general, mainly because I could actually hear the notes on the electric. It wasn't until I took up bass full time that I discovered these "purists" who'd sooner prefer jazz not to exist than have an electric bass in jazz. Bottom line, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You'll always have at least one heckler anyways.

[kraigo]

I liked Michael's post about enjoying fretless for what it is. It isn't a double bass. I don't play URB, but I do know that it's about as different as going from sax to oboe to flute. You shouldn't leave the electric at home on the first night.

You're getting gigs on the fretted. Stick with it until you find some other instrument that calls you and you can afford to get. It's no shame that the fretless you just got isn't the one for you. I had two others before I got my current one 10 years ago.

KO

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Tired_Thumb

Actually, back when I was a full time jazz trumpet player, I used to prefer the electric bass over the upright in general, mainly because I could actually hear the notes on the electric. Bottom line, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You'll always have at least one heckler anyways.

I was just thinking this the other day. I was listening to some Bob Mintzer big band stuff and the bass was obviously (from what I hear anyway) and electric bass - probably fretted and it sounded great. That's kinda what got me thinking this way.

[billoetjen]

Have I mentioned how much I LOVE TB?
What a great thread!
I live and play in Burlington, VT, which has its share of douchebags, "purists," and downright solid musicians. As long as YOU'RE playing the bass part, play what sounds and feels right for you. That said, a few DB's around here have told me that no way could I play jazz w/o a FL. I half listened to them (despite my opinion that one of my basses sounded right for the part to MY ears). Later, I decided to try FL for another project and fell in love with it. I even use FL in contexts that I'm not supposed to. But to my ears, it works. Sometimes I use fretted when I'm not supposed to.

Do what works for you. Don't let yourself get pressured. Congratulations to you for getting the gigs. But, keep messing around with the FL anyway.
Have fun!