Does anyone like to play slightly out of tune?

oniman7 · #1 06-08-2010, 08:00 PM

I'm not really big into developing my own tone yet (I'll get there), but I was just curious what you guys thought. Do you like to play with your strings slightly out of tune on either side? For instance, when my guitarist drops his guitar to Drop D, he keeps the 6th string (the new D) about 1/6th or a 1/4th of a step flat. He just says it gives it a better sound. Being new, I can't stand when my strings are out of tune (I had just figured out guitar tuning by ear when I switched to my bass), but I'd like to start developing my own tone and I think this could be a part of it.

What do you think? Any preferences for you guys?

AnthonyBrown · #2 06-08-2010, 08:09 PM

I don't think I'd follow his advice right here. I think you should stay in tune as much as possible. But then, you are free to try it.

John Wentzien · #3 06-08-2010, 08:12 PM

oniman7 · #4 06-08-2010, 08:15 PM

lol. I love the blatant disregard. I'm not saying it's a huge style or anything (and obviously 1/4th of a step is a big deal -- though, if I recall, there's a Pantera song written in Dropped D, then dropped another 1/4th step). Does anybody like it just slightly to one side? A couple of Hz maybe? Seems like something someone would've at least experimented with.

Jasonic · #5 06-08-2010, 08:16 PM

Lots of joke answers come to mind-but I'll spare you.
The bass notes are the harmonic rocks that the rest of the instruments notes are built on. The Bass (at least) has gotta be in tune or the whole thing is a trainwreck IMO.
Jackie McLean was a saxaphone player who liked to play slightly sharp, but he was playing on top of the arrangement. Even then I sometimes cringe when he pushed the envelope on albums like "Capuchin Swing".
If playing out of tune is a part of your "tone" you'll be known as "that guy that always plays out of tune". But never fear-if you don't use a decent digital tuner on gigs you're probably out of tune already! ..... ;-)

jefkritz · #6 06-08-2010, 08:21 PM

out of tune - not really.

out of time - oh yeah.

for realz though (but only sometimes, and always in time in my out-of-timeness)

BassBrass · #7 06-08-2010, 08:23 PM

Some things that work in the treble register don't work in the bass register. (Unless soloed) Like 3rds 4ths and 5ths chords off the bass E string, they are muddled...too low and things get lost. One string out on a guitar can be cool, a nice buzz...think Sonic Youth...they had pairs of similarly tuned (often junky) guitars and it sounded fab. 12 string guitars and pianos sound good because one string is always slightly off and it makes a richer waveform.
If your guitarist is still using majority in tune strings and the tonic is in tune, you need to be in tune.

**ExaltBass** · #8 06-08-2010, 08:25 PM

I always tune a cent or so sharp. It sounds more in tune with the band to my ears. I've been doing it for 35+ years and it has worked for me.

Beginner Bass · #9 06-08-2010, 08:27 PM

If you follow suit though, they'll probably think you are in tune!

thombo · #10 06-08-2010, 08:29 PM

both Derek Trucks and Jimmy Herring tune their low E's a few cents flat

JMac4strngr · #11 06-08-2010, 08:31 PM

There is a BIG difference in alternate tunings versus completely out of tune. Think of it this way, if you play a "B" flat and someone else plays an "A" at the same time what is it going to sound like? There is only a half step difference in the notes on the instrument however if you play them together they just don't jive. On the other hand if you were to tune your bass a half step lower, then transposed what you were playing by going a half step up the notes would be the same, but why would you waste your time doing all that.

ahc · #12 06-08-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thombo

both Derek Trucks and Jimmy Herring tune their low E's a few cents flat

Jimmy Herring probably got that from playing with Col. Bruce Hampton and the Aquarium Rescue Unit along with Otiel Burburidge. They believed in tuning to A = 438 HZ instead of 440. It caused some kind of beneficial cosmic aura, or something like that. The thing is, though, the whole band was tuned to that, not just a string or two.

walterw · #13 06-08-2010, 08:57 PM

when you tune a string "too low", its harmonics begin to get a little sharp in relation to the fundamental. in that situation, tuning so the fundamental pitch is slightly flat will bring the harmonics (that the ear hears more strongly anyway) into tune. google "piano stretch tuning".

also, banging hard on a loose string will make it bounce sharp, so compensating slightly for that can also work.

**colcifer** · #14 06-08-2010, 08:59 PM

The thing about guitarists leaving a string a tad flat when tuning down to an alternate tuning is to compensate for the intonation problems it causes. Typically a touch of analog chorus will be added as well to hide the exact tonal center.

JMac4strngr · #15 06-08-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

when you tune a string "too low", its harmonics begin to get a little sharp in relation to the fundamental. in that situation, tuning so the fundamental pitch is slightly flat will bring the harmonics (that the ear hears more strongly anyway) into tune. google "piano stretch tuning".

also, banging hard on a loose string will make it bounce sharp, so compensating slightly for that can also work.

Very interesting!

Kael · #16 06-08-2010, 09:01 PM

Sounds like your guitar player is an idiot and it is time to replace him.

Playing slightly sharp (like a tenth of a half step) can SOMETIMES lend an urgency to a lead instrument. Usually it just sounds like crap though. De-tuning a single string? That's just moronic.

R Baer · #17 06-08-2010, 09:06 PM

Call me old fashioned, but I can't imagine wanting to play out of tune.

varunkapahi · #18 06-09-2010, 01:19 AM

his guitar is not intonated right, thats about it

KingRazor · #19 06-09-2010, 01:33 AM

I recommend the guitar player get his strings intonated right. Maybe take it to a guitar shop and get it set up if he doesn't know how to do it himself.

I'm pretty aware of whether I'm in tune or not and I can't stand being out of tune, it just sounds terrible.

Kraken · #20 06-09-2010, 01:51 AM

I read somewhere that even a perfectly intonated guitar/bass if tunedperfectly some of the notes up to and around the 5th fret will always be slightly out of tune (I believe that this is why the Buzz Feiten system exists and why Dingwall basses have fanned frets - I may be wrong)

I have found that tuning very slightly flat generally evens this out, but to be honest the difference is that slight that most people wont notice.