Does Pick vs. Fingers Matter Live?

[R. Laevinus]

...okay, here's the deal. I play with either a pick or fingers, depending on the song and on the tone I'm after. Sometimes one works better, sometimes the other, yadda yadda.

Here's the deal: I'm in the conceptual stages of ironing out the last instrument I plan to buy for a while to come, and I'm stymied as to whether I should get a third P-bass, or a baritone guitar (essentially a Bass VI) tuned to the same range (and up).

Of course, the bassist in me is clamouring for that third P, and he cites reasons such as, "Bass is awesome," "You can never have too many basses," "You're a bassist," and most importantly, "Nothing sounds like a plucked P."

The showman in me is counterfiring with such arguments as "You have two already," "Having a baritone will allow you to jump from bass to lead six and back in the same song - a situation that might actually come up if the ability was there," "Being able to easily play the same lines one or two octaves up will allow you to use an el-cheapo guitar amp when you jam drumless in the singer's apartment," and finally the clinchers, "Singing backups will be easier due to the reduced need for shifting," and "Nobody will notice the lack of plucked P anyway."

I'm only concerned with live use and rehearsal - for recordings I still have my two P's and my chameleon-Strat (14 pickup options!) - and they ain't going anywhere. But I'm getting a lot of pressure in this new band to sing backups (and leads!), which I have trouble with, and I'm thinking anything that will help will, well, help.

So my real question - the issue that's burning at me - is thus: Do you think my concern with having what I consider to be Real Bass Tone live is important? Is it more important than other considerations?

Give me your views on the subject. Cheers!

[Winnb]

Why would you need 3 P basses? 2 I can see, always nice to have a backup that feels and hopefully sounds close to the first.

As for pick versus fingers - you should do whichever sounds best and feels the best in the song.

[R. Laevinus]

Originally Posted by Winnb

Why would you need 3 P basses? 2 I can see, always nice to have a backup that feels and hopefully sounds close to the first.

As for pick versus fingers - you should do whichever sounds best and feels the best in the song.

Why three P's? Simple. One with flats and a vintage-style pickup and bridge; one with zingy SS rounds, a modern pickup, and a high-mass string-through bridge; and one with slightly dead nickel rounds, a high-output pickup, and a high-mass top-loading bridge.

Seriously though, doing what sounds and feels best is what I do now. I think what I was trying to ask in that giant pointless ramble was, "Do you think, in the context of a indie/pop live gig, whether or not anybody will notice/care if the bass isn't plucked?"

[jmattbassplaya]

I think you should of titled this a little differently. I thought you were going to as which cuts through in a mix better - pick or fingers - in a live setting.

[capnsandwich]

There is a difference in tone between the two, even live. A better question would be, who in the audience cares about which tone is better? Bass tone, especially in rock, gets little or no notice whatsoever by the average listener. It's there to support the low end sound of the screaming and crunching guitars. There's always the occasional gear snob in the audience though.

[R. Laevinus]

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

There is a difference in tone between the two, even live. A better question would be, who in the audience cares about which tone is better?

That's what I was getting at. Thank you for cutting through my meandering ramblings!

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

Bass tone, especially in rock, gets little or no notice whatsoever by the average listener. It's there to support the low end sound of the screaming and crunching guitars. There's always the occasional gear snob in the audience though.

That's what I suspected. Cheers!

[BigOldHarry]

none at all.

[Winnb]

Originally Posted by R. Laevinus

"Do you think, in the context of a indie/pop live gig, whether or not anybody will notice/care if the bass isn't plucked?"

Ah, in that case then, no one will care.

[Thrill-House]

I think it mostly boils down to what is more comfortable to you.

[BillW87]

Originally Posted by R. Laevinus

"Do you think, in the context of a indie/pop live gig, whether or not anybody will notice/care if the bass isn't plucked?"

>indie/pop

If anyone in the audience is paying attention to the bass at all, its merely for the sake of being more ironic.

Sorry, my local scene is dominated by terrible, terrible hipster music so I couldn't resist the jab.

[JimmyM]

man, what a copout. the audience doesn't care...well they care if you sound like crap, that's for sure. i think using the audience as an excuse to not care about what you're doing is kind of lame, sorry.

[Nev375]

I don't think the difference in tone between picks and fingers is enough to make anyone sound like crap in itself.

[ShoeManiac]

I've been inclined to give a Bass VI a try for some time. As for tone? I think they've got the potential to sound pretty awesome. Want some proof? Check out some of the Beatles albums from The White Album up through Abbey Road. On some of those songs John Lennon and George Harrison would occassionally play a Bass VI on some of Paul McCartney's songs. "Hey Jude" and "Let it be" immediately come to mind. Personally, I think the Bass VI sounds awesome when played with a pick and some palm muting. But that's me and my tastes. YMMV.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Nev375

I don't think the difference in tone between picks and fingers is enough to make anyone sound like crap in itself.

i realize that. but this "the audience doesn't care so why should you?" stuff is still lame. that's the point i was making.

[Nev375]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i realize that. but this "the audience doesn't care so why should you?" stuff is still lame. that's the point i was making.

Well, I definitely believe that an intelligent band will know their audience and strive to give them what they want to hear.

However, I think the majority of people in most audiences are non musicians and can't really hear a difference in many subtle things musicians fuss over like what this thread is about. So maybe that argument isn't so lame.

So perhaps the better question is how does a musician impress a musically deaf audience?

....Oh, I see Gene Simmons and Roger Waters raised their hand?

[JimmyM]

who says the audience is musically deaf? audiences may not always like the music you like, but that doesn't make them musically deaf. audiences are more sophisticated than ever. they might not be able to tell the difference between a precision and a jazz, but they can tell a good mix from a bad one, and they can tell when the band onstage is looking down on them, and they can tell when a band sucks. why even bother trying to sound good in any way if you think the audience is so dumb?

sorry, but yes, that argument is lame, and so is treating your audiences like they're morons.

[Qvist]

^^well said!

[Nev375]

I would like to play to an audience that could hear good from bad musically.

But when people I don't know tell me how great I was on (insert song here) when it's the first time I've ever heard the song let alone play it. And I totally screwed some chord changes....

Then I ask him about this other song which I played correctly they say "I couldn't really hear the bass on that one." I have to wonder...

I know I play quiet when fumbling through new songs and rock out when I'm confident so you decide.

And no, this isn't just one person. this sort of conversation happens often. Both at the bar and in church!

But just because I think they have untrained ears, does not mean I think they are morons or that I would treat them as such. I respect your point of view, but that's a bold and erroneous assumption there man.

[Lobster11]

Originally Posted by R. Laevinus

But I'm getting a lot of pressure in this new band to sing backups (and leads!), which I have trouble with, and I'm thinking anything that will help will, well, help.

It took me awhile to figure out that THIS is the issue -- i.e., how to become better at singing and playing bass at the same time -- and you are considering changing instruments to make this easier. That seems to me like going out and buying all new clothes because you don't feel like doing laundry. I think you'd be much better off focusing your energy on simply learning how to play bass -- the basses you already have -- and sing. Stop looking for ways around it and just work at it.

I'm in exactly the same position right now, and I'm finding it to be quite difficult. (I don't have any singing experience to begin with, which makes it doubly hard.) But searching around TB has led me to some threads full of helpful ideas about how to learn to do this. For example, you can find ways to simplify your bass lines while you're singing, and/or find different fingerings for your lines to use while singing that require less shifting. It's a tough challenge, but in the long run I am confident that it will be worth the effort. Plus, you'll be able to save your gear money so it's there when you find something you REALLY need or want later.

[Kawai-chang]

Jimmy, I think the vast majority of audiences won't/can't notice the tonally differences between a pick and fingers. I think that's what most on this post are thinking.