Double thumping work in metal?

It's extremely odd to say, for all the talk about double thumping around here and all the talk about metal, it's weird to see that nobody's discussed double thumping in a metal context in any great detail, at least that I could find. Thus, I'm starting a thread.

Anyways, I remember getting to a point with my fingers where the speed just wasn't cutting it, and I couldn't push my fingers to keep up with the blazing wrists of the guitarists, nor would any parlor trick work. Then I got to using a pick myself, and for some time now I've been making progress with my picking technique, and I'm not looking to toss the picks out the window. That said, the pick feels constricting in certain ways.

Then today, I experimented with double thumping, albeit in my own weird way, though I was thumping with the flesh near the fingernail as people describe. However, though it needs practice, it felt extremely natural to keep up with guitar lines as required by using this double thumping technique, and the simple up-and-down likely wouldn't confuse my naive mind as opposed to playing triplets. In addition, watching Vic Wooten's fluidity with the technique certainly gives me hope that I can keep up with the best of the tremolo pickers, double kickers, and the like. In addition, I feel like I'd be freed to easily go back to fingerstyle lines, slapping, tapping, and what have you if I'm not grabbing a pick, throwing it back down, grabbing the pick again, throwing it back down again, etc.

I'm not dissing picking technique at all, nor am I saying I've found something universally better. I'm still happy that I pushed myself to learn how to pick. However, it's rather exciting that this new technique to me could be an extremely useful tool in my toolbox.

Anyways, just looking to see if any of you have been able to use double thumping in metal or some similar context. The only person I've ever seen use it live in such a way was a bassist playing with Job for a Cowboy, and even then it was spotty. I'd be interested to hear if any of you use it in such a way and how you use it.

[bassist 4 life]

I use it sometimes, I DT near the bridge when I play metal though.

[ostrich]

its pretty handy for fast riffs that are mostly played on one string but jump to the others for a note or two

also incredibly hand for triplets if your into that sort of thing

[Alec W. Conway]

**feels like a total noob**

Hum, what do you guys mean by "thumping"?

[Grueber]

Double-thumping in metal has always intrigued me too.
Franck Hermanny of Adagio uses it rarely but it gets kind of lost in the mix anyway. I think Ray Riendeau might have used it with Halford, but I'm not 100% sure.

When i get good enough with double-thumping i plan on incorporating into some metal

[AmazingGracePlayer]

Originally Posted by Alec W. Conway

**feels like a total noob**

Hum, what do you guys mean by "thumping"?

thumping is like slapping, instead of having your thumb vertical, your thumb (at least the tip of your thumb) is horizontal to the strings. then you use your thumb as if it's a pick, and slap through the string.

[tradition_2kill]

unless you gear the band around your bass playing/writing you will find that this technique used in metal { at least in my band}is not very practical.

[Alec W. Conway]

Originally Posted by htotheh

thumping is like slapping, instead of having your thumb vertical, your thumb (at least the tip of your thumb) is horizontal to the strings. then you use your thumb as if it's a pick, and slap through the string.

Like Wooten's thumb technique...?

[Grueber]

Originally Posted by tradition_2kill

unless you gear the band around your bass playing/writing you will find that this technique used in metal { at least in my band}is not very practical.

i think the whole point he's trying to make is that it is practical since it allows you to play faster.

[velvetkevorkian]

Originally Posted by Alec W. Conway

Like Wooten's thumb technique...?

Precisely. I always though it could sound pretty neat in some Cryptopsy-esque technical death metal, it could help cut through the mix a bit more.

[tradition_2kill]

i agree any styles of music can be intertwined, but wootens technique is not based on the thumb alone, compared to a good two finger technique the thumb alone is no match. {try playing creeping death with just your thumb} now you want to add some plucks, pops or whatever cutting edge technique to the mix, some simple octaves? well there goes your bottom end on thee and uh. open hammer pluck? gee i hope they didnt hear that{from experience}. i find the wooten technique has great potential but somewhat flavors things. {think a metal guitarist trying to two handed tap a metal riff}. looks great on paper, right? worked great for stanley jorden. trying to fit in a stanley jordan type part in a death metal song? killer. trying to play rhyme of the ancient mainer with just your thumb... pointless. i may be a bit jaded but if you take a guy that has mastered playing rhyme of the ancient mariner with only his thumb and still manages to hit all the appropriate plucks and pops{ while holding the bottom down} you would end up with something similar to a upbeat polka written by an very angry man. also, i myself find it very difficult to properly hail satan when im playing like larry graham. now on the other hand if you could find a guitarist that could come to grips with the fact that he has no sense of timming and is willing to play rythmic stabs or ambient texural stuff to give your wooten lines that touch of evil. that would be killer. {multiple guitarist doing this is legion} ever talk time with your drummer?

[Grueber]

Originally Posted by tradition_2kill

i agree any styles of music can be intertwined, but wootens technique is not based on the thumb alone, compared to a good two finger technique the thumb alone is no match. {try playing creeping death with just your thumb} now you want to add some plucks, pops or whatever cutting edge technique to the mix, some simple octaves? well there goes your bottom end on thee and uh.

I'm not sure why you would lose your bottom end. Double-thumping+plucking can all be done on the same string, so there is no need to play higher notes when plucking. I find this is a great way to match the drummer's doublebass patterns, and it's a lot less tiring than pumping it out fingerstyle. IMO

[DeathDancer]

It did seem like a good idea but I never found it to be consistent enough for my liking. I tried a similar technique but using the pads of my fingertips which was cool to be able to get my pick speed with my fingers but I also didn't like the way it changed my tone either. In the end I opted for just pushing my fingers harder and using a pick for the blistering fast stuff. If someone was able to get a good, consistant sound while doing it I'd love to hear it as maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance

[Goregrind29]

I double thump quite a bit in my metal band. Eric langlois from cryptopsy does too. As well as Erlend in a few of his bands, atleast it sounds like he does.

[velvetkevorkian]

The bassist from the Glaswegian band Maelstrom uses this actually, mainly triplets during 6/8 grooves.
www.myspace.com/maelstromscotland

Double thumping (IME anyway) has a very different sound and feel compared to normal slap, it doesn't sound funky by default (although funky is good...hmmm funk death metal? an idea!)

[Swimming Bird]

It works -- I've used it in metal bands, but usually accompanied by pops as well. What's really cool is if you can get your down-up-pop triples fast enough to do 32nd notes. As for doing thumb up and downs instead of picking (very cool idea) I'd say you need to hit the strings very hard and get a good thwack going so you can get through the mix.

Make sure you practice string crossing, because that can be kinda hard on the fly if you get into a tight, busy groove. Also, try Vic's thumb down-up double pop all on one string -- if lets you move amazingly quickly with relative ease and very little motion.

[tradition_2kill]

Originally Posted by velvetkevorkian

The bassist from the Glaswegian band Maelstrom uses this actually, mainly triplets during 6/8 grooves.
www.myspace.com/maelstromscotland

in some parts of the globe double thumping something from riverdance may seem quite natural

Originally Posted by velvetkevorkian

Double thumping (IME anyway) has a very different sound and feel compared to normal slap, it doesn't sound funky by default (although funky is good...hmmm funk death metal? an idea!)

+1, That's exactly the point I was going for in practicing it. My intention was not to imitate Vic Wooten or Larry Graham in a metal band, my point was simply to increase my dexterity on 16th notes without having to use a pick, thus freeing myself up for more tapping, fingerstyle, and other things without having to throw picks around. Frankly, it's beginning to work for me, which (I think) is good, but excuse me then if I'm not kVlt enough I take it. I'm working on my own project (Necrophagist meets Emperor, something weird like that, won't have anything recorded anytime soon), and I've been looking at anything I can add to the bass lines to keep them interesting and challenging, so this works as another tool in the belt.

[garth elson]

I've tried quite a bit of funk style chops and playin in metal, and it works great if you get the right tone (overdrive at 6 gain, an octave down and tone knob to max, for me)! If it's speed you want, though, what's somewhat easy to learn and do is to just use your fingers like picks (going both up and down). Thumb on E, crane your fingers so they're pointing right at the bass, then as you play normal fingerstyle, let them come back through the string you just hit, and you can play almost twice as fast! for best timing, get them a quarter stroke apart for even sixteenths.

[tradition_2kill]

a little over a week and ive totally changed my tune, as this technique will forever remain part of my arsenal.