Drop C, opinions?

Maxpowweer · #1 04-20-2012, 06:14 PM

Does anyone else dislike this tuning too, or am I on my own on this?
I really like playing along to bands like Bullet for my valentine, Killswitch engage, Atreyu etc, but they all play in CGCF tuning.
I always find it really hard to hear the bass on the song, because its so low and hidden behind two guitars and the drums, and because of this i find it quite hard to follow when playing, and get lost because the notes are so unclear.
I also find that since the strings are so bloody floppy, it just sounds really clanky and messy when playing fast.
I also find that theres no clarity in the notes when this low, especially on the E string.
Its really annoying having to re-tab each song to a 5 string. Whyy don't these players use 5 strings in the 1st place!
Does anyone else have these problems?

Thanks x

EricssonB · #2 04-20-2012, 06:25 PM

Somewhat relevant, I play with my 5er tuned up half'step to standard C and use somewhat light strings to counteract that. They're not floppy.

Find good strings and get your action set up well!

I don't do it because I play chugging music and need the lows. I do it because Kyuss/QOTSA changed my life, and that's what they generally used.

sammyp · #3 04-20-2012, 07:25 PM

if you need or like to play in drop C on a 4 string regularly it's helpful to have one setup and dedicated to just that ...a 4 string setup for standard tuning yields floppy strings etc when detuned ....you need to raise the action and adjust the truss rod and maybe go with a slightly heavier string set to make it feel right!

guitars are the same ...prolly gonna go with 10's if you are a 9's player in standard....some would go with 11's for drop c!

Jazz Ad · #4 04-20-2012, 07:28 PM

Drop tunings are taylored to produce a great band tone, which usually translate into a crappy bedroom tone.
Clarity isn't needed for this type of music. What you seek is unity. Drop tunings with a raw, agressive tone blend just fine into distorted guitars.

Maxpowweer · #5 04-23-2012, 06:20 AM

Thanks guys, I think you're right, I need a bass dedicated to this tuning.
I have a few 4 strings basses so I'll raise the action, invest in some heavier gauge strings. Hopefully I can play in these low tunings with taut strings.
Failing that I'll try up tuning my 5er

scorpionldr · #6 04-23-2012, 07:47 AM

personally I tried the whole "increase the action, increase the string guage" method. I was using GHL heavies at one point! (with the .115 guage E string), but I moved back to Ernie Ball power slinkies.
Anyhow, I think its gonna come down to a truss tweak (something I've never really had the balls to do on my own gear, as I have prescious little to mess with).

But if you have a five.........throw a capo on and TADAAA!! its in C.

khutch · #7 04-23-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpowweer

Whyy don't these players use 5 strings in the 1st place!

People who prefer a non-standard tuning tend to play off of open strings a lot. They tend to write their music around the open strings of a specific tuning and so a five string doesn't work for them or at least it doesn't work the way they want it to work for them. On the other hand with the proper strings and setup you should be able to play drop C without the floppies. I bought a five string and am ambivalent about it so I have tuned my four string in fifths, CGDA, as an experiment with another approach to achieving the same ends as a five string. The low C is not floppy but then I picked a 0.128 GHS Precision Flatwound for the low C to keep the tension at about 40 pounds.

Ken

Toastfuzz · #8 04-23-2012, 07:57 AM

When I was in a metal band we played in drop C# tuning, so I guess it was like Drop D but all the strings a half step down. I changed my strings from D'addario's to DR Drop Downs, and I gotta recommend them if you're drop tuning. They aren't necessarily thicker than other strings, but have more tension and more clarity in low tunings. They're actually engineered for drop tuning, and good if you like medium/light gauge strings. I had to play fast so heavy gauge strings slowed me down too much / was very exhausting for my fingers by the end of the night.

But these days for clarity I don't like going under Drop D or DGCF. Any further, the guitar tones sound better but the bass tones lose definition / get lost. Not all the time but often. Just makes it harder to get a good live tone thats audible when you go so low, in my experience at least.

tylerwylie · #9 04-23-2012, 09:12 AM

Drop C is the worst popular tuning, one more half step down and you're at B, so close... yet so far away...

Anyways, to get a decent tone in this most depressing of tunings, get a set of strings that'll work well for Drop C specifically. I used to do Drop C with DR Lo Riders gauges .125 .085 .065 .045 and it worked as well as Drop C will let you.

Don't forget to set string action, intonation, and neck relief when you put new strings on.

mattattack187 · #10 04-24-2012, 07:33 AM

I won't go any further than a half step down. If I play with a guitarist who uses the drop c tuning, I just play the notes in the higher octave. Sounds good and cuts through so much better.

MoeGJBeener · #11 04-24-2012, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpowweer

Does anyone else dislike this tuning too, or am I on my own on this?
I really like playing along to bands like Bullet for my valentine, Killswitch engage, Atreyu etc, but they all play in CGCF tuning.
I always find it really hard to hear the bass on the song, because its so low and hidden behind two guitars and the drums, and because of this i find it quite hard to follow when playing, and get lost because the notes are so unclear.
I also find that since the strings are so bloody floppy, it just sounds really clanky and messy when playing fast.
I also find that theres no clarity in the notes when this low, especially on the E string.
Its really annoying having to re-tab each song to a 5 string. Whyy don't these players use 5 strings in the 1st place!
Does anyone else have these problems?

Thanks x

i played a Fender P-Bass tuned CGCF in a band just like Atreyu/Bullet for my Valentine for about 3 years. Ran .115-.55 strings and had my bass set up for that tuning. never had a issue with clanky messy sound. i actually LOVED that tuning. it was so BALLSY! as far as hearing yourself. you obviously need a bigger rig. i was using a hartke 3500 and 2-410 cabs. never had an issue with a loud metal drummer and 2 guitarists running 412's and mesa triple rec's.

cliffburtonfan · #12 04-27-2012, 04:48 AM

My band at the minute plays in Drop C. I've been trying to convince them to go to standard and drop D for a while now but as the singer wrote the melodies when the songs were in drop C, he struggles to hit the notes in Drop D.

So I'm stuck with it for a while at least. Gonna order a set of DR Drop downs and get my bass set up for it properly and see if I like it any better.

Toastfuzz · #13 04-27-2012, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffburtonfan

My band at the minute plays in Drop C. I've been trying to convince them to go to standard and drop D for a while now but as the singer wrote the melodies when the songs were in drop C, he struggles to hit the notes in Drop D.

So I'm stuck with it for a while at least. Gonna order a set of DR Drop downs and get my bass set up for it properly and see if I like it any better.

I think adjusting a band's tuning to a singer's range is really the only reasonable reason to downtune.... downtuning just to be lower than another band seems silly to me. Its been proven time and time again that "downtuned" does not always equal "heavy." I've been writing doom riffs in Drop D for awhile now, heaviness is really in the feel and tone of the music more than the diameter of the strings.

Guitars may sound cooler downtuned, but thats just cuz they sound more like basses!!

MrMcHaggis · #14 04-27-2012, 07:20 AM

I personally play in C-G-C-F, and I rather enjoy it. My fiver is tuned to A-C-G-C-F. (this is all from lowest to highest)

It sounds great in a metal band setting. (We're all on this tuning)

bunkaroo · #15 04-30-2012, 01:58 PM

FWIW I just tried the 5-string set of DR DDT's on a 35" scale bass tuned ADGCF, and I thought they sounded dull and just generally bad. The only DR strings I've come across that I don't like.

I've had better success just putting together a set of single D'Addario XL's or ProSteels depending on whether you want nickel or SS. I tend to go 145-125-95-70-50 with the ADGCF tuning. That way dropping the D to C still produces decent tension.

TrevorCJ · #16 04-30-2012, 05:36 PM

GHS Boomers best strings for downtuning. My band plays in Drop A, yeah I said it AEAD! I use a four string. I use .50-.110 strings and it sounds fine

cliffburtonfan · #17 05-01-2012, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toastfuzz

I think adjusting a band's tuning to a singer's range is really the only reasonable reason to downtune.... downtuning just to be lower than another band seems silly to me. Its been proven time and time again that "downtuned" does not always equal "heavy." I've been writing doom riffs in Drop D for awhile now, heaviness is really in the feel and tone of the music more than the diameter of the strings.

Guitars may sound cooler downtuned, but thats just cuz they sound more like basses!!

100% agree, there's a band here in the UK called Sylosis who have a bit of a vendetta of downtuning just to be 'heavier'. They are probably the heaviest thrash band about at the min and they never down tune.

SYLOSIS - Teras - YouTube

Maxpowweer · #18 05-09-2012, 09:18 AM

Toastfuzz I agree, Lamb of God are heavy as hell and they play in drop D. I think it's all about how you play it.
I've seen some super low tunings mentioned, TrevorCJ AEAD, seriously? Don't they flap about in a light breeze?
Though if I am honest I did tune my bass into it, and it is quite beastly sounding! Just a bit unusable lol.
I also had a look into the DR drop downs and DR lo riders, and unsurprisingly those badboy aren't cheap!

spector_boogie · #19 05-09-2012, 09:26 AM

If you're having issues w/ strings and setups, I recommend checking out the "Strings" forum. You guys are wayyyyyy overblowing the "difficulty" (or alleged, as such) of drop tuning lol. It's not really rocket science or even basic algebra really...

We tune drop C. I love it. I tune my Spectors ACGCF. Circle K's ftw. DDT's are atrocious when compared to these. We're about to go drop B as an alternate and I'll be tuning G#BF#BE.

It's funny you mention KsE, considering Mike is one of the most prominent instruments in that band, since he's a majority songwriter. Have you listened to their albums? I wish all rock records were mixed that equally. Their drums are the weakest part of the band, mix-wise. You can always hear Mike very well, even live.

Maxpowweer · #20 05-09-2012, 10:25 AM

Yeah, I figured it surely can't be tooooo hard lol, so many bands professional or not, use such tunings, and lower on a 4 stringer. I always wondered how they combated the slackness of it, because it isn't just they sloppy playing / sound I personally seem to get, but theres a lot of clacking and rattling the pros don't seem to hvae a problem with.
Yeah of course, one of my faveorite bands. In fairness they are an exception to this, I just mentioned them as an example of they style of rock.