Drummer wants me to play with his kick drum?

[jeromebass]

The drummer in one of the bands I am in tells me I need to play the same beats as his kick drum for a more pronounced bass effect. I'm pretty new to playing bass in a band and I am learning alot about being a bassist. Is playing along with the bass drum a common thing for certain styles of music or just most music in general? I always try to play along and work with the drummer, but he is really specific about following his kick drum and vice versa.

[mike perry]

YES! I always try to use the kick as a guide to staying in time and in the pocket. This will help to create the heartbeat of the song. i would say that its always a priority to stay in line with the kick. The quicker you can sync with the drummer, the better foundation you will lay for the rest of the band! Best of luck

[Phe]

Well yeah and nay. It's common to lock with the kick drum but you know, you can choose not to lock with it. It usually grooves like hell if you do lock. And then you don't have to play much. That can be a good thing or bad thing, depends. If he insists you to lock in all the time you should have a talk. It's not must in any music. Could he be hinting about your time keeping?

[Lalabadie]

Well it's very usual to play along with the bass drum. Listen to a lot of songs and you'll get an idea about how muc it is done.

My advice is rather the opposite: don't let a note ring through a bass drum hit, unless you're absolutely sure it works (which happens, of course). Playing along with it sounds powerful, and gives the rythm section a way of sounding "tight", which is what you should be working on in the beginning. But try to find songs that are examples of how you can lock in with the drummer while not necessarily playing directly on the bass drum hits.

[droskobass]

Ok In my opinion, locking is a tool or technique that bass players and rythm sections should master so that they can use it at will.

My technique (in a basic back beat) when locking is to pay as much attention to the end of the notes as the beggining. I let my notes ring right up untill the nanosecond before the drummer hits his snare. I rarely overlap the snare if I'm locking with the bass drum.

Drummers eyes light up when I groove that way. Audiences notice and the songs really groove.

I say spend as much time as possible locking so that you can do it at will, any time. I also ecourage looking at other types of grooves as well, but the rythm section should agree what kind of groove your going to apply to the song.

check out this book for a good definition of rythm section grooving and for solid examples of grooves in different styles:

http://www.music123.com/Backbeat-Bas...62224.Music123

[jeromebass]

He probly wasnt dropping hints about time keeping becuase he compliments me on my timing. He just said that I should lock in with the kick every now and again when we need to get more powerful in a part of a song. I am trying it and it is actually opening my style up to new rhythms I would not have played otherwise. I am actually have problems hearing the kick every now and again though. I think we need to mic his kick til I get used to the specific rhythms he uses in the parts where he wants me to sync with him.

[droskobass]

there are lots of ways to practice getting tight in rehearsal:

-Turn down in rehearsals,
-watch his foot,
-lean on the bass drum,
-stop and play with just the bass and drums to establish the groove.

But the important thing is for each of you to know what the other is doing.

There a saying: "if you can't hear one of the other players, you're too loud."

If everyone follows that rule, the music will always be at the right level, and everyone will groove and sound tight, and everyone will hear the lyrics

[jeromebass]

I hear his drums fine mostly, just not the bass drum. Maybe he just needs to hit it harder relative to the other parts of the drum, at least til I really get a feel for its sound. We play with dynamics alot though. Sometimes we are really soft and other times we shake the place.

[nemo]

Originally Posted by droskobass

pay as much attention to the end of the notes as the beggining.

Excellent advice!!
I noted that too in my playing that it helps when I pay attention to it.

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by jeromebass

I hear his drums fine mostly, just not the bass drum. Maybe he just needs to hit it harder relative to the other parts of the drum, at least til I really get a feel for its sound. We play with dynamics alot though. Sometimes we are really soft and other times we shake the place.

Depending on the situation, it could be really hard to hear the kick drum. You could always position yourself to a place where you could see the foot, for example.

Long term, based on experience, you learn how drummers play the kick drum so then you could easily lock in, even without not properly hearing the kick. It helps to try to play the drums, or programming drum machines. --Kent

[Jools4001]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Depending on the situation, it could be really hard to hear the kick drum. You could always position yourself to a place where you could see the foot, for example.

I always stand on the left of the drummer so that I can see the kick going in. If you still have trouble hearing the kick you can always use the hi-hat as a sort of metronome because you can always hear that and you would hope the drummer locks in with his own hi-hat. If you do this you can be very accurate with where the kick is going to come in.

When you do stand on the left of the drummer though a word of caution - that usually puts a loud crash cymbal level with your ear, so wear earplugs, I'm partially deaf in my right ear and suffer from raging tinnitus because I didn't bother for 20 years and it's the high frequencies like cymbals that do the most damage.

[JmJ]

Originally Posted by droskobass

Ok In my opinion, locking is a tool or technique that bass players and rhythm sections should master so that they can use it at will.

My technique (in a basic back beat) when locking is to pay as much attention to the end of the notes as the beginning. I let my notes ring right up untill the nanosecond before the drummer hits his snare. I rarely overlap the snare if I'm locking with the bass drum.

Truth is good. I like using the the above technique.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by droskobass

Ok In my opinion, locking is a tool or technique that bass players and rhythm sections should master...

...when locking...pay as much attention to the end of the notes as the begining...I rarely overlap the snare if I'm locking with the bass drum.

Drummers eyes light up when I groove that way. Audiences notice and the songs really groove.

I say spend as much time as possible locking so that you can do it at will, any time. I also ecourage looking at other types of grooves as well, but the rhythm section should agree what kind of groove your going to apply...

Originally Posted by Jools4001

...When you do stand on the left of the drummer though a word of caution - that usually puts a loud crash cymbal level with your ear, so wear earplugs, I'm partially deaf in my right ear and suffer from raging tinnitus because I didn't bother for 20 years and it's the high frequencies like cymbals that do the most damage.

+2
Two massive chunks of superb advice in those posts!!!

The length of your notes have a huge impact on the groove.

No matter what your hearing situation is now, it WILL get worse as you age. You can keep a lot of it, or lose a lot of it. You decide.

IMHO, many less experienced bassists sound much better when they pay as close attention to when a note stops as to when it starts.

[jeromebass]

Cool, just the kind of advice I was hoping to get

[manutabora]

I'd say not just lock in with the kick drum, but try to lock in with the rest of the drumset. I'm not saying you should just mimick with the bass what the drumset is doing. That would be pretty impossible since they are very different instruments. But you can play with the kick, the snare, toms, cymbals, whatever part of the drumset you want to play with. An approach to grooving that is kind of cool to learn is to assign each part of the drumset a different note on your scale (this works very well for jamming over just one or a few changes). For example, if you're playing over a G chord, whatever chord it is, you could play your low G with the kick and then play a G one octave higher with the snare. This is a very basic idea but it can be very effective.
I guess that was more than you wanted to know, I hope I don't sound like a snob or anything, just trying to share what works for me. Now go melt their faces with your grooviness

[mothmonsterman]

the bass drum is a good guide for the beat.
I always play along with it for the most part, but then i also like to use the symbals and snare as a guide for higher notes and accents.

with slap particularly i use the bass drum for my slaps and the others for my pops.
but i do think playing with the bass drum is the first key in establishing a groove.

[ksandvik]

As for playing with the kick or not. It really depends on the groove that one wants to achieve. I think 100% locking to a kick sounds very robotic. Having flexibility and using nice patterns that lock with the drummer in general is usually much better. It's really the total sum of the drummer and bass player collaborating, hence I think it's really, really important to communicate and learn how various drummers you work with are actually playing. --Kent

[namraj]

Its not about locking in with the kick drum, even a moving groove locks the kick in place, if he wants u 2 play with his kick drum (as in sounding a note when he kicks a beat) then give it a go and see if you like the sound and effect, i find it works very well for punchy beaty pop, however don't let him or other members (partic guitarest) control u as a player, be urself, and let the band develop to encompas ur style.

[Rob L]

Very intersting thread.

I always play to the left of the drummer I'm with. I do seem to feel odd on the rightside of them. I never try to analize to much on what's going on, but I know that I pay alot of attention to the hi hat and that goes hand in hand with the kick. I play in a 3 piece and have for about, almost 20 years so I am a bit spoiled on being able to hear the kick. So in my situation you have a bit more freedom and need, than locking in only with the kick.

I would suggest get comfortable and communicate with your drummer and it will all grow from there.

[Jim Breece]

I lock in w/the kick lots, playing oldies, blues, classic rock, ballads. That would sound weird in a lot of metal, though, where the bass often plays with the guitars. And there's lots of blues and rock where bass and kick aren't playing the same thing, eg the bass may be playing straight quarter notes while the kick is syncopated. Regardless, you'll be well liked in many musical settings if you can lock in. It seems like for me if I can spend a few weeks really paying attention to what a drummer is doing we start to lock in naturally. And droskobass' advice to leave holes for the snare is huge. That puts you a step ahead in the groove department over lots of very good players who don't pay attention.