Economy in motion when fingering

[okieman]

I've been watching bass players in live shows and have been struck by how little hand motion there is on the fretboard. Certainly not as jerky/jumping around as my beginner's attempts. Is this economy of motion just something I have to figure out, or are there tips?

[Slowgypsy]

There are different ways to play the scale you're in. Up and down the string or across the fretboard. What you're probably noticing is the particular bassist playing across the fretboard which can translate into very little fretting hand motion.

[engedi1]

Also, your fingers must stay down on the fingerboard. When you are playing with your pinky, all the other fingers should be supporting it. That way, when you player your index or first finger from your pinky, all you do is slightly lift your pinky, and the other notes are already there. That is why their hands seem to move so little.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by engedi1

Also, your fingers must stay down on the fingerboard.

I think people place too much value on this idea. You need to understand when it's useful and when it's not. I've spent a lot of time over the years trying to figure out the most mechanically efficient ways of using the left hand. I believe is that often it is more efficient to let the hand collapse and expand horizontally across the strings rather than try to keep each finger pressed down on the note(s) you just played. Two reasons for this: one is that it takes energy to hold those fingers in place and if you can relax it's often better to relax. The other is that it's easier to move a finger that's moving as opposed to one that's come to rest. This isn't to suggest that you should be wildly throwing yer fingers around....economy of motion is essential. I just don't think that splaying yer fingers out and holding them there just for the sake of doing so is always the most economical way to use yer energy.

If you practice vertical chromatic playing in the low registers with economy of motion in mind you'll develop all the economy you need.

[chadhargis]

Originally Posted by engedi1

Also, your fingers must stay down on the fingerboard.

engedi1 is currently teaching me, so call me biased, but I understand his point. It's very difficult to discipline yourself to reinforce your pinky with the other fingers, but it has made my playing cleaner.

He's not saying "press hard" with the other fingers. Just use them to support the pinky. If you are playing in a area on the neck that makes the "1 finger per fret" a bit of a stretch then cheat a bit.

Economy of motion doesn't me "no motion".

I'm the worlds worst at flailing my fingers about as if they are detached from my body. Lately I've been trying to play easy songs that allow me to focus on my technique. Problem is, I've not engrained it as habit yet, and when I have to think about the piece I'm playing, I lapse back into my old ways.

[puddin tame]

Originally Posted by okieman

I've been watching bass players in live shows and have been struck by how little hand motion there is on the fretboard. Certainly not as jerky/jumping around as my beginner's attempts. Is this economy of motion just something I have to figure out, or are there tips?

no, just keep playing. it will come naturally as your body gets more and more used to the motion. no shortcuts here

[engedi1]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

I think people place too much value on this idea. You need to understand when it's useful and when it's not. I've spent a lot of time over the years trying to figure out the most mechanically efficient ways of using the left hand. I believe is that often it is more efficient to let the hand collapse and expand horizontally across the strings rather than try to keep each finger pressed down on the note(s) you just played. Two reasons for this: one is that it takes energy to hold those fingers in place and if you can relax it's often better to relax. The other is that it's easier to move a finger that's moving as opposed to one that's come to rest. This isn't to suggest that you should be wildly throwing yer fingers around....economy of motion is essential. I just don't think that splaying yer fingers out and holding them there just for the sake of doing so is always the most economical way to use yer energy.

If you practice vertical chromatic playing in the low registers with economy of motion in mind you'll develop all the economy you need.

I agree with the concept that you need to be relaxed at all times, I am not saying that you need to have all 4 fingers splayed out 1 per fret, as that is too stressful on the hand. I couldn't keep that up. I am just saying support your fingers with the other fingers. This is a double bass concept where if you DON't do this, you will end up with some tendanitus pretty quick. I find it transfers over to electric bass pretty well. It is much easier to show this to someone that to write about it.

[Skitch it!]

They chose the right hand position on the board to satisfy the line. If you can find it, everything lays underneath or close to it, it negates the note jumping/finding?

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by engedi1

I agree with the concept that you need to be relaxed at all times, I am not saying that you need to have all 4 fingers splayed out 1 per fret, as that is too stressful on the hand. I couldn't keep that up. I am just saying support your fingers with the other fingers. This is a double bass concept where if you DON't do this, you will end up with some tendanitus pretty quick. I find it transfers over to electric bass pretty well. It is much easier to show this to someone that to write about it.

The point engedi1 is making is fingers down is natural. When you hold the neck of a bass the fingers will naturally, by design be relaxed, this means they will have a curl, this curl will mean they will touch the fretboard and you will be "fingers down".
If you lift them then they are under tension, that is muscular tension needed to lift them and hold them off the fretboard. Since no one wants unwanted tension in their hands any other position that is not fingers down as a result of relaxed hands....is tension.

Economy of motion comes from having good healthy strong hands that can allow the all the fingers to do the work. Also the thumb can act as a pivot/slide to place the hand from the forearm, rather than have the upper arm and elbow move it about in a flailing action.
To really understand economy of motion you have to understand all your options in the music to move lateral and vertical on the neck. A blend of the two will give you economy of motion, but maybe not the sound, so it is more than just lateral and vertical movement on the neck.
Ultimately, economy of motion is great technique, developed and up-dated, modified as you go along, building in different elements as you go. Learn one thing, then build on it, or adapt it to work with another, and so on till you have a technique that works for you, and part of that will be the ease you use it with economy of motion.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

I believe is that often it is more efficient to let the hand collapse and expand horizontally across the strings rather than try to keep each finger pressed down on the note(s) you just played. Two reasons for this: one is that it takes energy to hold those fingers in place and if you can relax it's often better to relax.

I was always of the understanding that rather than pressing down on unwanted notes, that you let your fingers hover (close to the strings but not on them ) over the frets, in preparation for when they are required.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by fearceol

I was always of the understanding that rather than pressing down on unwanted notes, that you let your fingers hover (close to the strings but not on them ) over the frets, in preparation for when they are required.

It is again a blend. I use the natural curl to let the fingers behind the fretting notes sit on the strings. This gives a dampening to unused strings.
In other uses, i will fret some of the chord tones that apply but never play them, if it is a song that has me on say a root for a while, i let the resonance of my root playing create a subtle overtone of the chord tones i am fretting. Sometimes it is just a 5th, but it all adds to the overall sounds you can create and to your technique.
I have a great exercise i developed to help with finger independence and strengthening that can be used and blended into my technique that helps support the natural curl of the hand.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

I have a great exercise i developed to help with finger independence and strengthening that can be used and blended into my technique that helps support the natural curl of the hand.

I'd be interested in this Fergie. Could you post it, or P.M. it to me please ?

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by fearceol

I'd be interested in this Fergie. Could you post it, or P.M. it to me please ?

fearceol;
Sent you the P.M

To others:
This exercise is not a secret, it just needs to be used by those that can handle it. Since i can't monitor or teach those who would use it here personally, because i do not know your capabilities, i sent it to fearceol because i know he has good understanding of what's involved.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

fearceol;
Sent you the P.M

To others:
This exercise is not a secret, it just needs to be used by those that can handle it. Since i can't monitor or teach those who would use it here personally, because i do not know your capabilities, i sent it to fearceol because i know he has good understanding of what's involved.

Got the P.M. Thanks Fergie.