Ed Friedland's 1-2-4 fingering technique

[McGryff]

Whatever works best for you & doesn't cause injury, right?

[Warmuth]

My pinky is useless on the E and A strings, owing a little bit to slinging the bass low, so I use 1,2,3,3 per four frets. The exception would be heavily chromatic stuff that requires one finger on each fret, then I'll raise the bass to my chin so my pinky can reach fret four on the low E. I did pick up using the 1,2,4 off youtube vids for octaves and it was a revelation, so much easier.

[edfriedland]

Originally Posted by P. Bass

I'm surprised nobody has touched on left hand finger "shaping" for lack of a better word. A lot of finger stress can be avoided when stretching using 1,2,3,4 by keeping the fingers "splayed" or flat to the fretboard & fretting w/the finger pad closer to the knuckle . I use this most of the time. It can also save you a bunch of finger movement by barring from string to string at certain scale degree positions as well as help in damping.Just a thought.
B.

Checking back in on the thread.... I think Dave Marks video on the subject nails it. If you watch his hands, you'll easily see the stress that 1,2,3,4 can impose in some situations. And how for other types of line, it makes the most sense. You can't argue with physical evidence!

The comment above is also of interest to me. Again, for me it's a case of what ever works best for the moment. Sometimes I play very flat fingered in the left hand. It works great for string crossing in the same fret, box shapes, etc. It makes the "finger roll" technique much easier. And then, there are times when I play with "classical" technique - fingers arched, thumb low on the back of the neck. If I'm playing bebop or anything intricate, this technique allows me the maximum dexterity on the neck.

But interestingly enough, these days I've been playing a lot of rock and country and I find myself experimenting with the "slung low" thing. There are times when I need every ounce of mobility on the neck so I can be the most fluid participant in the music. But when I'm rockin' out.... it's not as much of a requirement, and..... I don't want to look like Mr. Fusion Geek on a rock gig. Beyond the look... I find wearing my bass low gives me a different feel. It DEFINITELY inhibits my playing, and that's why I don't teach people to play this way. But... I'm already well established with my technique, so I can freely switch to anything I want. I find the decreased mobility does a few things - it keeps me from trying to get "cute" because the it's impossible to pull off a lot of the things I could do if the bass were higher. And, as a result, it also changes the way I think on the bass. It's my job to get inside the music and inhabit the world in which it exists... sometimes that means limiting yourself. Also, it's kind of fun to sling it low and look "cool" for a gig.

Slinging the bass low means going to the monkey grip with the left hand. I've seen a couple of guys in Austin that keep their bass super low and try to play with the regular wrist angle... looks really uncomfortable. I give these guys 5 more years before they need carpal tunnel surgery. On top of that, they can't articulate even the simplest line. For me, low slung means I'm not going to play anything remotely intricate with the left hand. I find that I prefer a slimmer neck when I do this... this way I can still reach my E string! My 70's P bass with B necks work great, as do my J basses. I've been able to play my Lull P5 pretty well at lower strap lengths too.

For me, it's like an effect. Drop the strap 5 inches or so, and now I'm a rock bass player. My technique is hampered enough that I won't spontaneously throw in Donna Lee over Highway To Hell (come on, you know you WANT to...). I find I shift and slide more with this approach, and that's part of the deal I think. Rock, and other forms of "roots" music don't require a lot of dexterity from the bass player (not talking about Rush...), but if you HAVE lots of technique... sometimes the temptation is too strong to "let it rip" and that can be a deal breaker in many situations.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the conversation on this... to me the most important thing is to be flexible. I see many of my colleagues in the educational realm getting dug in to their philosophies and techniques, and while I understand why this happens, it doesn't work for me. When you are developing your technique, I think it's important to learn the most effective ways to approach the instrument to give yourself a solid foundation. But once you have good habits ingrained... I don't see anything wrong with altering things to suit a musical situation. I sling it low and play with the monkey grip quite a lot these days - but I'm not stuck that way. If I need to "shred some classical" I tighten up the strap and viola, I can now play Chromatic Fantasy during Brown Sugar!

[dougjwray]

Hey Ed,
One of my Brandeis music professors, an esteemed classical composer who was commissioned to write a piece for the Boston Symphony Orchestra when was 20, used to joke that the best way to write "modern" music on the piano was to tape 2 or 3 fingers together. Actually, I don't think he was really joking-- he was talking about physically inhibiting oneself in order to inhabit another place, thus finding something different.

Anyway...

Back to the discussion...

[portlandguy]

Ed is a Monster man

[Marial]

Originally Posted by bass_lord_mutha

+1, though I have a little different take on it from my personal experience.

I started out on double bass and was taught to use the pinky and the ring fingers together so that the pinky finger is setting the intonation point and the ring finger is aiding in leveraging the string down onto the fingerboard, so for me it was natural to do the same when I started learning electric bass and after a few years go to where I didnt use the ring finger for leverage since it was much easier to fret down on an electric bass. I do use 1-2-3-4 once I get up past the 7th fret or so, since at that point each finger positions above each fret natually for me.

I used 1-2-3-4 exclusively until I started taking upright lessons and was introduced to 1-2-3/4 fingering. Like you, I now use the latter technique below the sixth or seventh fret and the former above.

[kevteop]

I took up DB a couple of years ago and, similarly, I now use 1/2/4 fingering in the lower regions of bass guitar, unless it's a part that is easier played with 1/2/3/4 - but to be honest if it's an ostinato pattern all the way down by the nut I get fatigued using 1/2/3/4, I don't like doing it.

I have pretty spindly fingers so you'd think I'd be fine doing whatever, but not so. I've also had tendon problems in the past so I'm careful about keeping my wrists happy these days.

[edfriedland]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Hey Ed,
One of my Brandeis music professors, an esteemed classical composer who was commissioned to write a piece for the Boston Symphony Orchestra when was 20, used to joke that the best way to write "modern" music on the piano was to tape 2 or 3 fingers together. Actually, I don't think he was really joking-- he was talking about physically inhibiting oneself in order to inhabit another place, thus finding something different.

Anyway...

Back to the discussion...

Hey Doug... you're the same Doug Wray I knew in Boston right?

I totally get that. In fact I do stuff like that all the time. I'll play a whole song with one finger, two fingers, on one string or two... just to see what I come up with. Taping fingers together is a cool idea. I can think of several times when I wished I had brought a set of bolt cutters to a gig so I could lop off the pianists left pinky!

Like I said earlier, I think it's important to establish good technique as your foundation - then you can experiment with different approaches for creative purposes... or like in my case, if you just want to look cool.

[dougjwray]

Originally Posted by edfriedland

Hey Doug... you're the same Doug Wray I knew in Boston right?

I totally get that. In fact I do stuff like that all the time. I'll play a whole song with one finger, two fingers, on one string or two... just to see what I come up with. Taping fingers together is a cool idea. I can think of several times when I wished I had brought a set of bolt cutters to a gig so I could lop off the pianists left pinky!

Like I said earlier, I think it's important to establish good technique as your foundation - then you can experiment with different approaches for creative purposes... or like in my case, if you just want to look cool.

Yup, I'm the same guy!

The bolt cutters are a good idea. I did a session where the producer (not a diplomatic guy) exasperatedly told the piano player to sit on his left hand.

"I'll play a whole song with one finger, two fingers, on one string or two... just to see what I come up with." Cool! Jaco told me that when was a teenager playing country club gigs (he referenced "Proud Mary"), he'd go the whole night fingering with only his ring finger. But he did this to strengthen that finger, not to do what we're talking about.

I really respect that you're an experienced and fine teacher who's nonetheless willing to shed pedantry and experiment with "incorrect" methods.

I've always really enjoyed your Bass Whisperer video reviews, too.

[edfriedland]

Thanks Doug! Nice to be in touch again... you came by the Zomberg house with Shelly if I recall. Anyway, yeah, getting stuck in dogmatic thinking is not conducive to a happy life! Whether it's musical technique, or whatever... There are many folks that claim there is only "one way" to play, or learn music, or practice.... I don't feel that way.

[edt844]

Is there a way to play 4-note arpeggios, Maj7, Dom7, min7, etc using 1 - 2 - 4 fingers? Ed S.

[McGryff]

Originally Posted by edt844

Is there a way to play 4-note arpeggios, Maj7, Dom7, min7, etc using 1 - 2 - 4 fingers? Ed S.

Certainly! Upright players have been doing that for ages, and it's easier with frets. If you haven't checked out the Simandl method (for Double Bass), think about doing so. It'll give you a nice intro to 1-2-4 (aka Simandl) position exercises. For the jazz idiom, Rufus Reid's Evolving Bassist is a great option.

[edt844]

Originally Posted by McGryff

Certainly! Upright players have been doing that for ages, and it's easier with frets. If you haven't checked out the Simandl method (for Double Bass), think about doing so. It'll give you a nice intro to 1-2-4 (aka Simandl) position exercises. For the jazz idiom, Rufus Reid's Evolving Bassist is a great option.

Thank you.

Ed T.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by McGryff

Certainly! Upright players have been doing that for ages, and it's easier with frets. If you haven't checked out the Simandl method (for Double Bass), think about doing so. It'll give you a nice intro to 1-2-4 (aka Simandl) position exercises. For the jazz idiom, Rufus Reid's Evolving Bassist is a great option.

Simandl is a good workout, and actually a good read, IMO.

I've played 124 mostly since majoring in music in college, studying classical upright (what a trip all that was, I must say). It's more necessary on upright due to the scale. But, I find that even on the electric bass that it feels most relaxed, even above the middle region of the neck. Of course, there are lines that need 1234 fingering, and fortunately my fingers are long enough to do them that way. But, as soon as I can I fall back into 124. I recently had a dilemma when a bruise occured on my pinky, and I had to play 123 everywhere all the time, including first position. Mercy me, I was sure glad it finally healed up. I was making it, but it probably would've given me trouble after too long.

Anyway, 124 is the cat's pajamas, imo.

[Stev187]

Originally Posted by edfriedland

But when I started putting together the HL method series, I realized a few things: 1) Many of my younger students could not physically make that reach, even with a pivot technique.

It's so cool that Ed has chimed in a bit here. I wanted to stress his point above; I use Ed's HL method with my son who started bass guitar on his 10th birthday. He's been playing for a year and a half. Even though we started him on a 30" scale bass, OFPF just would not work for him given the size of his hands. He often plays my 34" basses, and his new bass is 32" or medium scale.

Right now he's enrolled in our local School of Rock doing a Black Sabbath show. He has needed to do some passages OFPF (mostly in the upper register as others have mentioned), but his bread and butter is 1-2-4. I see him naturally switch back and forth all the time. Ed's method has really given him a strong foundation for his playing.

I was taught bass guitar with a rigid OFPF approach; since I've been working with my son, I do a lot more 1-2-4 and find it super comfortable; I switch back and forth without thinking about it.

--Steve

Edit: after posting this, I realized I had a visual example to share. Here's a clip of me playing some lines from another one of Ed's books (R&B Bass Masters). I didn't realize it, but the Bootsy line is best done with 1-2-4 and the Meters tune requires OFPF--you really can't do it comfortably without it.

http://youtu.be/DbWPS3cVYN0

This is a FANTASTIC book from Ed; we call our collection of his books Ed Friedland University. LOL

[ishkabibble]

Is 1-2-3 also similarly unergonomic and unhealthy??
I find the 1-2-4 approach to be immensely uncomfortable. Even when I was starting out, I was much more dextrous and stronger with my third finger, so I play with 1-2-3 in the lower registers and 1-2-3-34 in the upper ones.
When I play with 1-2-3, I don't feel my fingers stretching or anything, nor do I feel any strain in fretting the strings.

[Marty Forrer]

I've used 124 for 35+ years of gigging. The 3 and 4 actually share a tendon, so I use the 3 as a support for the 4. With the thumb in back of the neck where it's meant to be, it's dead easy to pivot on the thumb and cover four frets.

[tekdiver500ft]

Three is the weakest finger on the hand, so you wind up straining (even if you don't notice it right away). You're better off sharing and using three to support four. 1-2-4 is the preferred method for most situations.

[Noot]

I learned bass by myself without any teacher or documentation. Without knowing about fingering positions, I used either 1234 or 124 depending on the riff. I can technically stretch my fingers to grip fret 1 with index and fret 5 with pinky but I find that inefficient. When playing pentatonic funk/hard-rock kind of riffs I always use 124 because it's much easier and faster to grip the octave with the pinky. If I use 1234 for this kind of riffs I feel I have poor control and the middle finger starts to hurt after a while. However on other types of riffs, for example over minor scales, I use 1234I am now picking up double bass and I am not even considering playing 1234 on it, I am sure it would kill my middle finger.

[HEADbass]

Originally Posted by precijazz

When I started playing on my own, I tried one finger per fret and found it hard to stretch that far in the lower register. To read about 1,2,4 after few week's struggling was a revelation. Improved my playing immediately.

Now I find myself playing 1,2,3,4 more and more, and down there too, but only if the bass line demands it. If not, 1,2,4 is still cool, even within the same line. Gives your left hand a short break while still playing. My brain got used to switching, obviously, especially if I manage to just not think about it too much.

I absolutely agree