Effective Three Finger Speed Building Excercises?

[AzzaKnoldy]

Hey guys, I've been trying to get my three finger speed up, but I don't know how or what to practice. I'm using the DiGiorgio way (3212 3212 3212 3212 etc.) but I don't know how to get it up to speed. If any of you guys out there could give me some tips, excercises or videos or whatever, it would be much appreciated.

[Fergie Fulton]

With three finger use rather than think of 1-2-3-1 or 3-2-1-2 think 1 &2& .

So the '&' is always on the middle finger regardless of what finger we start on. So consider the starting finger as the '1' regardless.
This way of thinking enhances and uses or natural tendency to think of one two, or left right. But because we use the '&' when using three fingers we eliminate the association of there being three fingers involved as;
1 & 2 & 1 & 2 & 1 & 2 & 1 & 2 & which is actually;
1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4 or
1-2-3-2-1-2-3-2-1-2-3-2-1-2-3-2 or
3-2-1-2-3-2-1-2-3-2-1-2-3-2-1-2.
Again because we use two numbers with the and twice we get four counts, but it is easier to ingrain a one and two count rather than introduce more numbers, and this will work when matching up four finger use as in one finger per fret on the fretting hand.

In doing this you can effectively alternate, once learned slowly, to just increase the speed through better dexterity. Remember if a tempo is 120 BPM, then playing it faster is not an option, but playing it easier is, by cutting down the work load and spreading it out so to speak. Another point is music is not always about even use, you need to develop the idea that any finger can start and then we just alternate from it. Our brain likes to find the 'one' in a beat, so if any one finger dominates then when the playing then it always wants to play the 'one' regardless of where it happens, so the fretting hand finger will skip or rake to accommodate this finding the one. That in itself leads to hesitation or tripping over the fingers rather than being fluid, and being fluid will increase speed just as a matter of course.

Try this exercise and feel what I mean.

We will play a C scale up and down then up and down again. If you start the C on the '1' finger and play C D E F G A B C B A G F E D C D E F G A B C B A F E D C
as a three finger technique you will in fact play the second time up starting with the C on the '3' finger....not the '1' as preferred.
So of you count the fingers off as
1-2-3-2-1-2-3-2 or 3-2-1-2-3-2-1-2
you will be thinking three into four ( remember the fretting hand uses four fingers and the plucking hand three ) rather than in twos which 1&2&1&2&1&2& is.

So try it slow and say 1&2&1&2& as you play. You will soon learn to start from any finger and of course you can pause and check what finger need to follow on of you get lost because the middle finger will be the and so it is wether you use the '1' finger you have started with or the '2' finger that follows it. Simple way to look at it is a '1' or a '2' will always follow the '&' regardless.

I guarantee this clarity of thought with slow practice will see you get faster by being more fluid. Once learned and understood move it to other scales and other forms of music, most of what you will find is 4/4 based so 1&2&1&2& is based on using three finger but really counting in fours. For triplets just use the natural tendency to go 1-2-3-1-2-3 or 3-2-1-3-2-1 when needed. The secret is to mater it slow, then all you do is increase the tempo, remember tempo is fluid and consistent, so if you drop notes or hesitate then you will end up of of sync with what you are playing so out of tempo....even a slow speeds. If you cannot play it slow in tempo you will never play it fast in tempo.

[keiththebassist]

I like using ring, middle, index, ring, middle, index etc. but accenting every "1" in a four beat count. I't can be a little tricky at first because it lands on a different finger each time, but with a little practice I was able to make my 3 finger technique not only faster but much more fluid, not like a bunch of triplets smashed together. It's also much tighter and my lines have more clarity. You can switch up the accents for odd meter rhythms once you get comfy. Hope that helps.

[Clef_de_fa]

Check out the instructional cassette ( now on youtube ) video of John Myung prog bass.

John Myung Progressive Bass Concepts chunk 1 - YouTube

[nysbob]

I'm with Keith, but you'll find examples of people who use three fingers effectively that fall into either camp.

I can do what Fergie does too, but when it comes to playing very fast I return to R-M-I.

The main thing is, keep working on it and don't give up.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by nysbob

I'm with Keith, but you'll find examples of people who use three fingers effectively that fall into either camp.

I can do what Fergie does too, but when it comes to playing very fast I return to R-M-I.

The main thing is, keep working on it and don't give up.

Stick with it. The reason you return to R-M-I is because that is a dominant habit. It is a common dominant habit to all, simply because the little and ring finger side of both our hands is designed for power, and the thumb, index and middle finger side is designed for dexterity.
So we always find it easier and more comfortable to come from the dominant side of power and strength to the weaker side of dexterity and movement. Think of it like a whip, we hold the thick end and to allow the thin end to move faster so produce the "crack".
Looking at a tree will give you the same idea, it gets thinner in the truck the higher it gets, and it's branches get thinner the further out and up they grow.

So it is a case of finding music to play to help break the dominant habit and develop both sides of the hand to work as one, think on it....a piano player does not just play in one direction, they can play any where, in any direction, with any number of fingers, while playing two different lines and reading two different clefs.
I found the songs of Joe Satriani to be great for this.
They have a great tempos, some good movement, Surfing with the Alien, Flying on a Blue Dream etc, and lines,"such as the start of Satch Boogie, Ceremony, etc that require dexterity, speed and touch.
Also his slower songs help develop the touch required as they are not based on developing a fast fluid technique but a slower deliberate one....again a different skill, but based in the same three finger technique.

I must say that I do not use three finger technique exclusive.
I am what I call a three finger occasional user.
In other words my two finger technique works great for me, but when I want more dexterity I use three fingers.
That is not a mental choice....it just happens and it happens because it is ingrained that it is what I need to do in order to achieve playing what I want successfully, easleyand with the least amount of fuss.
Only moving on and find harder more testing music to play does the skill develop.*

As in any line of work the more you do it the more the task becomes ingrained. So just learning say one song and working on it till you can play its lines fast does not necessary mean you can play fast, it means you can play that one song fast, the skill has not been totally ingrained to be transferable to all songs you can play.
That is the beauty of the Satriani songs they have lines that 'pulse' along for long periods of time, sometimes even a whole song, before you have to break it down and then start 'pulsing' again.
For a new player to three finger this is great for developing the skills at a basic entry level to build on as well as fun.

P.S.
i am having to re-learn all my skills due to a car smash that broke my neck and paralysed my right upper side, arm and hand, so I understand the frustration of learning this all again. I reckon another three to four years for me to be just comfortable with it before I can really start to develop it again.....if at all

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[nysbob]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

....a piano player does not just play in one direction, they can play any where, in any direction, *with any number of fingers, while playing two different lines and reading two different clefts.*

I understand your point, but as a matter of practicality I would contend that you NEED the strength at times. Producing notes on a bass requires a bit more strength than a piano requires. At any rate, I don't believe there's any ONE correct answer. People develop their own styles to accomodate their needs. As long as you can execute your intentions, it's all good, IMO.

And unless we're talking about chins, I think the word is clefs.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by nysbob

I understand your point, but as a matter of practicality I would contend that you NEED the strength at times. Producing notes on a bass requires a bit more strength than a piano requires. At any rate, I don't believe there's any ONE correct answer. People develop their own styles to accomodate their needs. As long as you can execute your intentions, it's all good, IMO.

And unless we're talking about chins, I think the word is clefs.

Totally agree, there is a place for individuality, and as you say it is the end product that matters.

LOL i see the clef thing. The last post was done on an ipad and it does this thing of replacing words as you type, so it must have took clef and put the t on the end. It also crashes regular in Talkbass when answering posts, so it is cut and paste from another programme and i get the * all over the place if there are any spaces in the typing....Grrrr*****

[nysbob]

Don't you love it when the machines "correct' you.

[chaosMK]

Do all the speed exercises you want with whatever crazy patterns you like, then do them with the opposite pattern (if you are learning triplets 3-2-1, get the reverse 1-2-3 up to speed too). This "balanced" approach has helped my speed and general control tremendously after reaching a RH plateau ~10 years in.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by chaosMK

Do all the speed exercises you want with whatever crazy patterns you like, then do them with the opposite pattern (if you are learning triplets 3-2-1, get the reverse 1-2-3 up to speed too). This "balanced" approach has helped my speed and general control tremendously after reaching a RH plateau ~10 years in.

You raise a great point and to just ram the point home, work on the weaker movement, usually to the little finger side, rather than to the thumb side.....and understand 10 years in is a good part of the journey but by all means not all of it. Those that get disillusioned after a few months should realise this is a comittment that will never really have an end point, so enjoy the journey.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by nysbob

Don't you love it when the machines "correct' you.

Ducking loave hens...