Eliminating the three finger "Gallop"?

corpsegrinder · #1 05-15-2008, 12:07 PM

When I try to play quickly, my pointer, middle and ring fingers seem always to want to do triplets (Galloping if you will). Is there anyone out there who has faced and overcome the same problem? Practicing with a metronome seems to do no good, as above a certain speed, I end up breaking down the 1-2-3-1-2-3 rhythm and my ring finger wants to pluck at the same time as my middle. it ends up more like 1-23-1-23- and eventually 123-123-123... If you understand what I mean. I DONT WANT TO DO TRIPLETS ANYMORE! any suggestions?

nysbob · #2 05-15-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corpsegrinder

When I try to play quickly, my pointer, middle and ring fingers seem always to want to do triplets (Galloping if you will). Is there anyone out there who has faced and overcome the same problem? Practicing with a metronome seems to do no good, as above a certain speed, I end up breaking down the 1-2-3-1-2-3 rhythm and my ring finger wants to pluck at the same time as my middle. it ends up more like 1-23-1-23- and eventually 123-123-123... If you understand what I mean. I DONT WANT TO DO TRIPLETS ANYMORE! any suggestions?

I posted a few tips in the "two to three" thread.

rap138 · #3 05-15-2008, 12:33 PM

I have the same problem, at slow speed I go 123212321...... and fine. at faster just a lot of concentration....hoping to see an answer on this thread.

nysbob · #4 05-15-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rap138

I have the same problem, at slow speed I go 123212321...... and fine. at faster just a lot of concentration....hoping to see an answer on this thread.

I see no real speed advantage in using the middle finger every other note. Can't you play just as fast alternating two? The whole purpose of going to three IMO is to lessen the load on EACH finger. R-M-I is a more natural pattern to me - have you tried that?

onlyclave · #5 05-15-2008, 01:50 PM

I think you guys have answered your own question but you don't want to acknowledge the answer: Slow down. I know you want to end up playing fast, but the truth is you don't have it nailed at slow tempos.

Metal Mitch · #6 05-15-2008, 02:19 PM

I think the OP's original question was about going from 3 to 2, not 2 to 3.

Just use 2 fingers. Slow it down, use the metronome and alternate leading with each finger.

2-1-2, 1-2-1, repeat

You stated the problem was your 3rd finger striking at the same time as the 2nd, so be careful not to let that happen.

If you want to isolate that problem, just use the 2 and 3 fingers for 8th note exercise (not galloping)

2-3-2-3 repeat
3-2-3-2 repeat

as always, the key to speed and control is leading with the weak finger until it's just as strong/precise as leading with the strong finger.

Plan on spending lots of time with this. I'd recommend a good set of studio headphones with a DI rig you can mix the metronome click into. Get a bunch of horror movies and have fun.

bigfatbass · #7 05-15-2008, 02:34 PM

Practice SLOW, with a metronome, and don't expect your feel to square off over night.

Those three things will get you there.

MarkTAW · #8 05-15-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corpsegrinder

If your fingers hurt, play harder. If your wrists hurt, play faster. If your ears hurt, play louder.

Play softer, slower and quieter.

Vin_MM_Sabre_79 · #9 05-15-2008, 02:45 PM

BTW...You don't need a bass to develop this kind of strength and coordination. You can work on these exercises tapping on a table or your leg while waiting in line at the bank. It helps with independence, strength and dexterity.

jaywa · #10 05-15-2008, 08:04 PM

If you're talking about playing straight 16th notes with three fingers at fast tempos (a la "Neon Nights" by Black Sabbath), here is what has worked for me:

(1 bar of 4 counts):

2-1-3-1 / 2-1-3-1 / 2-1-3-1 / 2-1-3-1

Leading with the middle finger vs. the index might feel a little odd at first but it lets you get two strokes of your 1st finger in for every single stroke of the other two. Which makes the finger do the most work that for most people, is naturally their strongest and fastest. Also, I find that I tend to add a bit of an accent when I use my 3rd finger so in a straight kick/snare pattern that means I'm putting a little extra push behind the snare hit which works out nicely.

I will caution, this works great on single string root notes but kind of breaks down if you have to cross back and forth between strings quickly.

Also, +1000 on using a lighter touch. Don't pull the strings as much as brush them. It's a lot like drumming where players mash the sticks down into the heads and squash the natural rebound, then have to do double work to pull the stick back up off the head when they could have put the bounce to work for them. There is "bounce" in bass strings too that you can put to work for you. Play lighter and let your amp do more of the work.

Ironically, for high tempo patterns where I WANT to "gallop" a la "The Trooper", I've tried both ways and actually like the two finger approach better there, leading with the index. Also two fingers is definitely the way to go for shuffles a la "La Grange".

bigfatbass · #11 05-15-2008, 08:32 PM

I'd suggest almost the opposite. Just close your eyes, open your ears, turn on your metronome at a deathly slow click, and patiently and methodically will your fingers to do your bidding.

They SO think they are better/smarter than you!

Sunsabitchin' fingers! Show them who's boss!

Deacon_Blues · #12 05-16-2008, 03:45 AM

When I'm practicing 3 finger technique, I don't have the problem that it sounds like galloping (anymore, I should add), but I get problems when I'm moving from one string to another. I guess the advice is again to slow down and practice, practice, practice...

I've never gotten very comfortable with using SA (strict alternating) even with 2 fingers, but I guess it would be a big a advantage if I learned that properly first. What do you think?

jschwalls · #13 05-16-2008, 05:36 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVRCqJfAqoQ

Here is the very simple way I discovered how to apply 3 fingers to eliminate the "gallop feel".

R M I R
M I R M
I R M I

Have Fun...

jaywa · #14 05-16-2008, 07:05 AM

I don't get too hung up on "strictly" alternating the two fingers. Maybe I'm lazy but if I'm crossing strings and it winds up flowing best to use either finger two or even three times in a row, so be it.

And on some songs that call for a lot of drive on root 8ths I will use only my index finger (unless of course the tempo is just crazy fast). There's a different attack that happens when using your index repeatedly vs. alternating.

bigfatbass · #15 05-16-2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

There's a different attack that happens when using your index repeatedly vs. alternating.

If you ever catch a Will Lee clinic, that is exactly what he talks about.

WhiteKnuckles · #16 05-16-2008, 09:28 AM

Just to nit-pick, because it took so long for me to get it through my own thick skull...but galloping and triplets are not the same thing.

corpsegrinder · #17 05-16-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Play softer, slower and quieter.

Ouch, man. How you gonna go and dis my catch phrase? lol

corpsegrinder · #18 05-16-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaywa

...Also, +1000 on using a lighter touch. Don't pull the strings as much as brush them. It's a lot like drumming where players mash the sticks down into the heads and squash the natural rebound, then have to do double work to pull the stick back up off the head when they could have put the bounce to work for them. There is "bounce" in bass strings too that you can put to work for you. Play lighter and let your amp do more of the work.
.

This could be a problem as I use the fret slap and my tremendously powerful attack to get a nice growly sound. Any suggestions on getting this sound while playing softer?

corpsegrinder · #19 05-16-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

When I'm practicing 3 finger technique, I don't have the problem that it sounds like galloping (anymore, I should add), but I get problems when I'm moving from one string to another. I guess the advice is again to slow down and practice, practice, practice...

I've never gotten very comfortable with using SA (strict alternating) even with 2 fingers, but I guess it would be a big a advantage if I learned that properly first. What do you think?

I have a thread on this. It's under the title string crossing. there might be a few responses in there that could give you a boost

svenbass · #20 05-16-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corpsegrinder

This could be a problem as I use the fret slap and my tremendously powerful attack to get a nice growly sound. Any suggestions on getting this sound while playing softer?

Try lowering your action so you still keep the fret slap.
I also think one can get a good growl with a lighter touch -of course you should experiment with pickup height, amp settings and whatnot, however I am of the school that 95% of your tone will be from your fingers.

I play a lot of upright, and have to be conscious of my right hand attack when I go to electric. I like a good growl, and tend to play aggressively but with a light touch, if that makes sense. If I go at it like I do on the upright I wind up beating the snot out of the strings and getting a messy tone.