Ex guitarist - losing the pick

[Pure.Fusion]

Hi all,

I'm trying to head towards being a bass player in a band. I've been playing guitar for about 20 years.

Got myself a cheap(ish) 6 string bass and have been home recording with it for almost a year now. *Love* my bass!

My left hand still manages to move around the fretboard without problem; well, at least it did after it toughend up a bit 'cause reaching across 5 strings to fret a low C in the early days really killed it!

But my right hand is use to holding a pick, using alternate strokes, or flow-to-next-string stokes on some occasions and sweeping across 5 or 6 strings when needed. For bass it seems to use fingers will require learning a whole new technique I mean I really suck at playing bass with my fingers - they don't quite coordinate with my left hand, no speed with accuracy and muting is non exsistant!

So other day, I grabbed a pick and had a play - first time. Huge improvement in that notes were clean and sharp, rang for the right length, most other strings were muted and of course more speed. No surprise I guess, it's (basically) like playing a large giuitar.

I seem to have this pre-conceived idea that "real" bass players play with their fingers and that picks are the cop out. Can someone tell me where I got this idea from??? I guess most all of my bass role models play with fingers - in fact I'd be surprised if anybody I listen to plays with a pick.

So, (the impossible question) how long do you think it would take me to develop some finger style if I continue? Is it worth persuing? Any advice or opinions on this? Any ex-guitarists here?

Will a Garrison/Willis style ramp help me?

It's probably relevant here to mention a music style - I live for jazz-fusion but tend to write/record more non-heavy prog/rock styles because my playing skill falls short of being able to play fusion (like the big boys). My bass lines tend to mimic guitar and keyboards runs from time to time, which is where my right hand fingers are letting me down.

Realistically, If I join a band playing bass i'd probably be playing Floyd and Zeplin covers .. at least to begin with.

Any help out there with an ex-guitarists finger style vs pick?

Cheers,
FM

[Stumbo]

You might want to check out these Links.

[EpiRipper]

I've been playing bass for 30 years. The first 10 of which I played fingerstyle with the occasional use of a pick for certain songs. For the last 20 years I have played with a pick. People on TB are always asking how to get a growly sound from their amp... it's simple, round wound strings played with a pick. It works for me and I can't see myself going back to fingerstyle any time soon. ( It must be said however, I sometimes play fingerstyle if I drop a pick. But as soon as I get a chance to grab one from my pick holder, its back to playing with a pick.)
There is no right or wrong, whatever works for you!

[FaithNoMan]

Originally Posted by Pure.Fusion

I seem to have this pre-conceived idea that "real" bass players play with their fingers and that picks are the cop out. Can someone tell me where I got this idea from??? I guess most all of my bass role models play with fingers - in fact I'd be surprised if anybody I listen to plays with a pick.

It's a stupid notion that a "real" bass player uses fingers only, founded by closed minded morons. If you want to learn finger-style, all the better for you, man. Like EpiRipper, I played fingerstyle for years and years and I too, would scoff at pick players back then.

I now realize how dumb I was.

Some of my favorite "rockin" Zeppelin tracks have John Paul Jones using a pick on bass. He's renowned for his fingestyle, but he didn't give a damn what people thought about his "technique".

Achilles Last Stand is def. my favorite of his basslines, with muted pick-scrape, and explosive bursts of notes with electrifying attack.

Just remember, all that matters is what comes out of the speaker, nothing else.

[Pure.Fusion]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

You might want to check out these Links.

Hey, thanks Stumbo. Yeah, I've been lurking here for a few weeks now and I've certainly read through the ongoing battle that exists between the pick players and the finger picking players!

I was hoping to separate this thread 'cause I *already* have a picking style. Actually, I think it's a pretty damn efficient and sexy one at that. Unfortunately, that is for a different instrument

Cheers.
FM

[Arthur Strand]

Each job to its own, I maintain. As a bassist, I played with a pick until the jazz fusion idea spread and reached me. After that, I developed the finger style. I then took up guitar for songwriting and composing purposes. Mostly using the plectrum - but then I became interested in classical guitar - that brought finger-style into the picture. Moving on, I plumped for Lute music, 16th c Renaissance. Plus some Flamenco guitar. Basically, this did not really influence my bass work but there are occasions when plectrum could be used.
It all depends on the piece of music and the job that the band is undertaking at the time. A new band rehearsing a new set may have the arranger select a song or piece that would certainly benefit from a plectrum bass while the majority of the set requires finger picking bass guitar lines.
For personal practice, newbies used to guitar, will transfer more easily by using a pick. After that, the choice is theirs unless the MD has the say. Sight-reading bass lines: there are occasions for plectrum and those for finger picking. Not so much "for" and "against". That applies to jamming as well.

[Pure.Fusion]

Ok, so what I'm reading here (and in other threads) is that really there is no big conspiracy against pick users and whatever you do, it shouldn't stop you from playing music.

Although I think the poll shows that there are more fingerstyle users than pick users, perhaps down the track I'll discover why ... unless there's any particular major downside to going the way of the pick that you want to share with me, I'll try it on.

I guess like guitar, the last 3 fingers could be used for chords. Best of both worlds

Thanks all for your input.

Cheers,
FM

[KingRazor]

I'm the opposite of you. Fingers feels very natural to me, picks do not. I can't play with a pick to save my life. A people say picks are easier for playing quickly or easier for beginners to use, this was not so in my case.

I wish I could play well with a pick so that I would have the option to if I wanted that sound but it's just so unnatural. I always wind up going back to fingers.

[Pure.Fusion]

So KingRazor when you say you want the option of playing with a pick, is that so you can get that sharp attack of the 'pluck' in your sound? Is it s sound thing?

FM

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Pure.Fusion

So KingRazor when you say you want the option of playing with a pick, is that so you can get that sharp attack of the 'pluck' in your sound? Is it s sound thing?

FM

Yep. Some songs sound much better with a pick tone than a finger tone.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Pure.Fusion

Hi all,

I'm trying to head towards being a bass player in a band. I've been playing guitar for about 20 years.

Got myself a cheap(ish) 6 string bass and have been home recording with it for almost a year now. *Love* my bass!

My left hand still manages to move around the fretboard without problem; well, at least it did after it toughend up a bit 'cause reaching across 5 strings to fret a low C in the early days really killed it!

But my right hand is use to holding a pick, using alternate strokes, or flow-to-next-string stokes on some occasions and sweeping across 5 or 6 strings when needed. For bass it seems to use fingers will require learning a whole new technique I mean I really suck at playing bass with my fingers - they don't quite coordinate with my left hand, no speed with accuracy and muting is non exsistant!

So other day, I grabbed a pick and had a play - first time. Huge improvement in that notes were clean and sharp, rang for the right length, most other strings were muted and of course more speed. No surprise I guess, it's (basically) like playing a large giuitar.

I seem to have this pre-conceived idea that "real" bass players play with their fingers and that picks are the cop out. Can someone tell me where I got this idea from??? I guess most all of my bass role models play with fingers - in fact I'd be surprised if anybody I listen to plays with a pick.

So, (the impossible question) how long do you think it would take me to develop some finger style if I continue? Is it worth persuing? Any advice or opinions on this? Any ex-guitarists here?

Will a Garrison/Willis style ramp help me?

It's probably relevant here to mention a music style - I live for jazz-fusion but tend to write/record more non-heavy prog/rock styles because my playing skill falls short of being able to play fusion (like the big boys). My bass lines tend to mimic guitar and keyboards runs from time to time, which is where my right hand fingers are letting me down.

Realistically, If I join a band playing bass i'd probably be playing Floyd and Zeplin covers .. at least to begin with.

Any help out there with an ex-guitarists finger style vs pick?

Cheers,
FM

lots of great players use(d) picks,and it would be wrong to let your skills atrophy......you could integrate your fingerstyle playing into your practice routine,but pick until they are up to stage readiness....

[rockstarbassist]

Nothing even remotely wrong with using a pick the majority of the time. My current act pretty much demands it from a tone perspective. My fingerstyle would get lost or I'd have to dial in a high-mids+highs "panky" kind of tone to accomplish what I need. And I'm not going with the pank!

Transition from guitar to comfortable and fluid fingerstyle will take a while and will be rewarding in the end, but even so you still may come back to a pick as your main style. I can do both equally well so it's nice to have that ability in your bag, as any player should.

Contrary to what you may read here, there's no "right" or "wrong" way to do anything as long as it fits! I know some of the all time greats had some extremely funky form and technique that would never work for me yet it made them famous for playing a friggin' bass!

[Pure.Fusion]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

Transition from guitar to comfortable and fluid fingerstyle will take a while and will be rewarding in the end

May I ask what you mean by this? To me this statement seems to have that mysterious hidden quality that places finger style on a pedestal above pick use - an attitude that as mentioned above I was previously suffering.

FM

[hrodbert696]

There's nothing wrong with using a pick or fingers. I think people get the stereotype that real bassists play fingerstyle only because most guitarists use a pick and everyone figures bassists have to be different. Myself, I'm most comfortable fingerstyle but I realized before too long that some songs work better with a pick either for the attack or for speed so I started working on learning both. I had an audition recently where the guitarist raised his eyebrows and said, "Oh, so you play with a pick!" I thought it was rather ironic because I do prefer fingerstyle, I was using a pick because the songs they asked me to prepare seemed better suited to it.

Anyway, learning fingerstyle will just be a matter of practice, how long it takes will depend on how much time you spend working on it. Start with simple lines and work up from there. I don't know if starting off with a six-string bass will help or hinder you here -- you're giving your hand a lot more to do traveling over the strings with the extra, it might be simpler to practice fingerstyle on a four-string first and then shift into your sixer. Also, watch your wrist -- keep it straight, not in that vulture claw posture with the bent wrist that a lot of people fall into when playing fingerstyle.

[Pure.Fusion]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

guitarist raised his eyebrows and said, "Oh, so you play with a pick!"

Ahhhh, you see! I'm not going mad - the bias exists! LOL

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

Also, watch your wrist -- keep it straight, not in that vulture claw posture with the bent wrist that a lot of people fall into when playing fingerstyle.

Excellent. I'll take all the tips I can get. I don't know exactly what the straight wrist means right now but I'll dig around and make sure I understand it.

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

I don't know if starting off with a six-string bass will help or hinder you here -- you're giving your hand a lot more to do traveling over the strings with the extra

As for the 4 string thing, I've been using the low B and high C in my home recordings and probably won't be outlaying for another bass, so I'm stuck with the 6.

Really, on day one there was definitely mass confusion between the left and right hand but it's been 12 months and left hand always fingerpicks the appropriate string that's being fretted - if that's what you were referring to.

The biggest problem witht the 6 at the moment (besides the lack of finger style skill) seems to be muting. That low B starts vibrating when I move off it and wander to the highter strings.

When I use a pick on the bass everything seems to sound clean; obviously all my guitar muting skills are automatically working.

Cheers,
FM

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Pure.Fusion

I seem to have this pre-conceived idea that "real" bass players play with their fingers and that picks are the cop out. Can someone tell me where I got this idea from???

I don't know where you got this idea, but you need to drop it quick.

Develop a decent fingerstyle technique, hang on to your pick skills, you'll be a double threat (learn a little slap and you'll be a triple threat).

That you were a guitar player and already possess pick skills is to your benefit. Wait until the next time you need that unique attack, you will see what I mean. Oh yes, the day will come.

EDIT: I'm a teacher with 20 students, I tell them to practice everything (besides slap) with both fingers and pick. EVERYTHING.

[Pure.Fusion]

Guys,

Do you think a Garrison/Willis style ramp help me with the fingers?

FM

[klaus486]

Two names for you to check out...... Dominique Di Piazza and Anthony Jackson. Nothing else need be said really. Learn the fingers if you want. Practice is all you need.
As for the ramp I play j style basses mostly and cant stand the ramp. I can control my own fingers and want the ability to dig in when needed. The pickups are my guides. For me its all about Right hand thumb positioning in relation to the pickups.
For an exercise try this. Alternate strictly an index middle 1 2 right hand plucking pattern then with the left hand just fret 1 2 3 4 index middle ring pinky. 1 string at a time. Then keeping same right hand pattern break up the left 1 3 2 4 - 4 1 2 3 etc....then try 2 1 right hand plucking. Hours of fun! Next comes string crossing! And oh yeah.......you have to be paying attention to right and left hand muting all at the same time! C'mon it's easy and fun too!

[Pure.Fusion]

Thanks klaus486.

I think I'd almost be across that excersice you mentioned, at a nice slow and steady pace.

Yeah, the string crossing is a problem at the moment. I've fallen into an always-alternate 1-2 index middle as I move up a string and a same-finger (which ever it may be at the time) to move down a string, you know since it already has that downward momentum. (Kinka like a pick sweep for my guitar)

This always poses problem since a string skip like this can turn your 1-2-1-2 into a 2-1-2-1. Then I think, am I supposed to stay 2-1-2-1 until the chance of another string skip or should I correct this somehow! It does my head in.

I must look up and see if there is a "standard" two finger method that I should be following.

FM

[seventhson]

Part-time guitarist here...I primarily use fingerstyle, but I will use a pick if it's easier to play that way, or if the song calls for it. There are no rules.