F minor with Simandl

[skantzos]

Hi all. Coming from guitar, I recently found out about the Simandl fingerings. So my question is: How would you finger an F minor(or say Ab major) in 1st position with that sytem? Or is there any way other than the obvious 1 note per fret that makes sense
Thanks
nick

[LM Bass]

Everyone is gonna say "get a teacher" and they're all correct, so I'll just go ahead and do it first. Just in case you don't have one already, and need help finding one, the symphony in your town will have phone numbers for the bassists in the section that teach. If there's a University or College nearby with a music program, call them up and see if you can find a classical double bass teacher there.
Lots of your musical knowledge will transfer over to bass just great, but guitar-specific stuff doesn't translate very well. Jazz bass teachers can be great, but you want one with a classical bass background to help you with technique questions like this one.

Okay, so your F minor (in "half position") would go
1 -2 4
1 -2 4
1 4
With a little shift between the 1st and 2nd fingers. When 2 is used, keep 1 down, when 4 is used keep ALL fingers down.

best regards and have fun in your new journey!
Laurence

[skantzos]

ok I should have said I was referring to the bass guitar , and not double bass, which you obviously have in mind
Thanks for the reply tho, I guess on the upright with Simandl you use 1 and 2 even for whole tones in half position, right? I guess on the bass guitar I would rather use 1 finger per fret for such lines/scales...
cheers

[LM Bass]

Sorry Skantzos, when I heard Simandl I thought of upright. You can use the same fingering on bass guitar though. Most electric bass players use the 1-2-4 fingering in lower positions, and then one finger per fret from about the 5th fret up.
best
L

[bearshimmy]

I would not apply simandl techniques for bass guitar because it is a very different instrument from double bass.

If you insist on following simandl fingerings, for F minor starting in 1st position it would be 1-2 4-1-2 4-1 4

a much easier fingering would be *edit* 134 134 13 as no shifting is required

[MKoby]

I don't know that I would use the Simandl fingering for electric or URB.

Think about pivot with thumb as guide, not a shift.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by bearshimmy

I would not apply simandl techniques for bass guitar because it is a very different instrument from double bass.

If you insist on following simandl fingerings, for F minor starting in 1st position it would be 1-2 4-1-2 4-1 4

a much easier fingering would be 123 123 13 as no shifting is required

Don't mean to jump in on this but....
This fingering down in half position (1FPF or extensive use of the 3rd finger) can really tear up the fretting wrist. I used this technique for about 20 years and it pretty much ended my career as a serious musician. Won't happen to everyone, but if your wrist can't take that kind of bending you could end up with nothing left in your fretting hand 20 or so years down the road.

The Simandl fingering shouldn't be discounted on the EB and I'd recommend trying it. I'm working on switching to it myself so that hopefully I can resume playing at least in a limited way. It's already helping quite a bit.

LS

[gnasher1993]

Technically F minor would be half position? Wouldn't it?

[Dbassmon]

Important to note that Simandl is a fingering system for double bass, a member of the Viol family. It was devised and conceived to address the big scale of the DB and to create position playing that addresses intonation challenges and large amounts of pressure needed to depress the string effectively . While those fingerings do work well for electric bass (a member of the guitar family) they are not optimal.

I would use guitar fingerings for an electric bass
Fm: 1-3-4 0-1-3 0-2-3

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Dbassmon

I would use guitar fingerings for an electric bass
Fm: 1-3-4 0-1-3 0-2-3

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, I have to ask how you're fingering a Bb note on an open A string.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by bearshimmy

If you insist on following simandl fingerings, for F minor starting in 1st position it would be 1-2 4-1-2 4-1 4

a much easier fingering would be 123 123 13 as no shifting is required

The 124 is not as strict as some people seem to think.

I'm an advocate of Simandl but my fingering for an F natural minor in 1st position would be 1-3-4-1-3-4-1-3 (or 4). This breaks the 124, but involves much less shifting.

[bassybeenz]

im studying DB in college right now but play electric much more often and i now find that one finger per fret on electric works easy even when playing in F.

for fnatural minor
1-3-4.1-3-4,1-3
harmonic minor
1-3-4,1-3-4,2-3
melodic acending
1-3-4,1-3,0-2-3

you didnt specify witch minor so i posted my fingerings for all of them on electric

sorry if that was out of line in any way

[Dbassmon]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, I have to ask how you're fingering a Bb note on an open A string.

absolutely right that's a typo
Should be 1-3-4 1-4 0-2-4-1 4-3-1 4-3-1 melodic minor

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by bearshimmy

I would not apply simandl techniques for bass guitar because it is a very different instrument from double bass.

If you insist on following simandl fingerings, for F minor starting in 1st position it would be 1-2 4-1-2 4-1 4

a much easier fingering would be 123 123 13 as no shifting is required

What's so different between the two instruments that you can't use the Simandl method? A double bass and 4 string electric bass both have 4 strings and the Simandl method is great for connecting notes and making music, well, musical. There's nothing wrong with shifting.

It's not all about finger strength.

[MKoby]

I would not use it for either instrument;
That said as a follower of the Rabbath approach.

URB
lighter strings (correlli medium tungsten/steel)
D neck
bent/angled endpin
narrow shoulders

Pivots for of a total of 6 (plus half) positions
thumb as support, are as weight to fingers

similar left fingering slowly absorbed to break 20+ years of bad habits.

Nothing is absolute; there is room for different approaches.
Some will work better than others. Try not to waste a lot of time on the others.

Simandl approach is great for gear of the 1880s to 1900.
Rabbath approach makes more sense for lighter steel strings, narrow shoulders and a balanced bass.

Invariably sounds inflammatory, but it is meant as my opinion, not rule of law.

[skantzos]

Originally Posted by bearshimmy

I would not apply simandl techniques for bass guitar because it is a very different instrument from double bass.

If you insist on following simandl fingerings, for F minor starting in 1st position it would be 1-2 4-1-2 4-1 4

a much easier fingering would be 123 123 13 as no shifting is required

Thanks for all the replies

I am not sure I get either fingering right

How can you play a whole tone in half position with 1 and 2?
and then semitone between 2 and 4?

where is the shifting in this?

how is 123 easier?

sorry for bombarding with questions

edit: ok now I think I got it(?) the dashes mean shift
and by 123 you meant 134, right?

[bearshimmy]

oops, my mistake

I meant 134 not 123

dunno what I was thinking =)