Fifth??

[Deanbassist445]

Hey everyone, i am relatively new at playing the bass (almost 2 1/2 years) but i don't really know my theory and i know what the root is but if someone could explain and give me tips on how to play and what fifth notes are that would be greatly appriciated

Thanks

[tdogg]

one string up and two frets up. the "fifth" of the low e is the second fret of the A string. the fifth of C (3rd fret A string) is the fifth fret of the D string. so if a bass line calls for EECC, you could play E-B-C-G and be fine

[JustOpenYourMind]

Or same fret one string down, you'll have the fifth but an octave lower.

[Deanbassist445]

ok thanks guys that really helps

[fearceol]

This explains it well :

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/intervals/

[JKambing]

To the OP, I learned the the "fifth" refers to the fifth note from the root in that particular scale, including the root. So for C major..

Root ---> C
Second ---> D
Third ---> E
Fourth ---> F
Fifth ---> G
Sixth ---> A
Seventh ---> B
Octave ---> C again, but higher octave

Doesn't matter where on the fretboard you play the fifth, as long as it's a note within the scale.

So for something exotic like the Arabian Scale..

Root ---> C
Second ---> D
Third ---> E
Fourth ---> F
Fifth ---> F#
Sixth ---> G#
Seventh ---> A#
Octave ---> C again, but higher octave

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, as I'm new at music theory too.

[Beginner Bass]

A 5th is the 5th note of a scale. Say you're in C:

C-1
D-2
E-3
F-4
G-5
A-6
B-7
C-8/1

[Bruce Lindfield]

In this context, I would say it is not exactly the 5th note of the scale - but rather the 5th that makes up the chord.

So - you could have a half-diminished chord with a flattened 5th - where you would need the note a semi-tone below your "one string up and 2 frets" rule....

So - if you play a normal, "perfect" 5th while a guitarist or piano player is playing a half-diminished chord - then you will sound WRONG!

So a D Half Diminished chord includes D F Ab C - if you play an A - then it will clash!

[TheMarkV]

there are augmented chords too, with a sharp fifth.
but in general, you can figure out the root note of the key, and you can find the diminshed chord in the key. and the deminished part of the key is the only part where the fifth will be in a different place. any other place, the 5th will be one string up and 2 frets over. just experiment a lot, and maybe even find a theory tutor. solid theory makes for a solid musician.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by JKambing

So for something exotic like the Arabian Scale..

Root ---> C
Second ---> D
Third ---> E
Fourth ---> F
Fifth ---> F#
Sixth ---> G#
Seventh ---> A#
Octave ---> C again, but higher octave

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, as I'm new at music theory too.

The above example is somewhat inaccurate, could create confusion for a beginner. 2 things seem a little off:

1.) By convention, when discussing scale tones, It is assumed that the numbered tones are from the Major scale unless an alteration indicated.
2.)By convention, a scale is indicated with the tones in alphabetical order

so correcting your arabian scale for these two points :

Root ---> C
Second ---> D
Third ---> E
Fourth ---> F
Flattened Fifth ---> Gb
Flattened Sixth --->Ab
Flattened Seventh ---> Bb
Octave ---> C again

This way the arabic scale is clearly illustrated in terms of how it is altered from the C major scale.

A shorthand version would be:
1 2 3 4 b5 b6 b7

(the pattern 'restarts' at the 8ve)

Handy format , because if you know a fingering pattern for the major scale, you can quickly see how to adjust the fingering for a new scale.

Natural Minor
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Mixolydian
1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

and so on...

[TheMarkV]

owned

[Warfender]

No offense, but if you have been playing a couple years and don't know what a fifth is, you REALY should take some lessons as you are limiting your abilities not knowing basic fundamentals. I'm sure you can play, but once you have some lessons and learn chords, scales, modes, etc, all this will be 2nd nature and your playing will be 1000 times what it is. A good teacher can teach you these things in a few months. Trust me I was you not to many years ago.

[JKambing]

Originally Posted by mambo4

The above example is somewhat inaccurate, could create confusion for a beginner. 2 things seem a little off:

1.) By convention, when discussing scale tones, It is assumed that the numbered tones are from the Major scale unless an alteration indicated.
2.)By convention, a scale is indicated with the tones in alphabetical order

so correcting your arabian scale for these two points :

Root ---> C
Second ---> D
Third ---> E
Fourth ---> F
Flattened Fifth ---> Gb
Flattened Sixth --->Ab
Flattened Seventh ---> Bb
Octave ---> C again

This way the arabic scale is clearly illustrated in terms of how it is altered from the C major scale.

A shorthand version would be:
1 2 3 4 b5 b6 b7

(the pattern 'restarts' at the 8ve)

Handy format , because if you know a fingering pattern for the major scale, you can quickly see how to adjust the fingering for a new scale.

Natural Minor
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Mixolydian
1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

and so on...

Thanks, Mambo. That was useful information for me.
I've always been interested in this kind of theory. Just too busy with school and stuff to sit down and learn it properly.

[mmjazzbass]

the 5th is the 5th note in the scale. so in C, the 5th is G.
In jazz theory, the 5th can also refer to the 5th mode of the key center of a song.
So if you have a tune in G major, then the 5 chord would be G7 (over which you could play G mixolydian, or C major starting on G)
hope that helps.

[queevil]

Originally Posted by fearceol

This explains it well :

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/intervals/

If you haven't checked this out yet you should. It explains the fundamentals of intervals very well. It also gives of popular songs in which those intervals are used so that you can have an understanding of how they're useful in music.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I still think it's much easier to play the chords and look at these and know which chords have which notes - this is much more useful than thinking about scales all the time.

Scales are good for practice at home - but when it comes to playing a tune, as a bass player you are outlining chords and what you need to know is where the fifth is perfect, diminished or augmented...

[tobie]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

when it comes to playing a tune, as a bass player you are outlining chords and what you need to know is where the fifth is perfect, diminished or augmented...

++1

Chord / music sheets are extremely handy here as you'll at least know when minor / dim / aug chords are being played. Chord sheets however do not tell you which notes within each chord are to be flattened / sharpened. If you're not sure, stay with the route note - specially if you want to play arpegio's & other combo's which include the flattened 3rd note in ever-present minor chords.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by tobie

++Chord sheets however do not tell you which notes within each chord are to be flattened / sharpened. .

Well - there are only a few types of chord and you can easily learn which chords contain flat 5 and quite often chords are notated with things like this - e.g. D7#5 . But if you see a half-diminished chord then it has a flat 5.

There are really only a few chord types:

major, dominant seventh, minor seventh, tonic minor, half diminished,and fully diminished. All other chord types can be related to one of these six.

It is much easier to learn these, than every note in every scale!!

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

There are really only a few chord types:

major, dominant seventh, minor seventh, tonic minor, half diminished,and fully diminished. All other chord types can be related to one of these six.

It is much easier to learn these, than every note in every scale!!

+1.

I have some Carol Kaye instruction books and DVD's, and she endorses this idea. She points out, that while it is very important to know your scales (especially scale degrees) it is chords that are a bassists main concern.

[PJSShearer]

Originally Posted by fearceol

..... while it is very important to know your scales (especially scale degrees) it is chords that are a bassists main concern.

This should be printed out, framed, hung on the wall and read twice daily by everyone on this site....