Finger Strength Exercise

[foq1978]

I've noticed that my pinky was (is) too weak, so I bought a Varigrip, and started using it today. (incidentally, there's a varigrip banner right now on my TB new thread page - the advertisement works!)

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here has used it, and if they think it works for finger strengthen.

Things are so bad I've been avoiding using my pinky when playing. Maybe it's more like a bad habit, but I guess it starts with the lack of confidence.

[HaVIC5]

One of the great misconceptions with bass playing and guitar playing for that matter is that the fingers are "weak" and need to be exercised in order to have the muscle in order to properly play the instrument. This couldn't be further from the truth. There are many people who develop carpal tunnel with those hand grip devices, and I can guarantee you that no pro uses one. In fact, the famous composer Robert Schumann had to stop his performance career because he developed extreme RSI's in both hands from "exercising" his pinky and ring finger with a device he created for the purpose.

All brute muscle strength in bass playing and guitar playing comes from the forearms and on up the arm to the shoulder. This is why its important to keep your wrists straight while playing. If you take your arms out and face your forearms at each other (keeping your wrists straight), lock your pinkies together, then pull against them. You'll find you can exert an incredible amount of brute strength. You never see an upright bass player with a hand exerciser, even though the pressure they deal on the strings with is far, far greater than us bass guitarists. They learn to control that strength and transfer it to the hands.

The reason why you think your pinky is weak is because you haven't trained the muscles that you have to do what you want with them, not because they aren't "strong enough". Its a matter of finesse and dexterity. Simply practicing scales or arpeggios or whathaveyou with the pinky is what you need to do, not use a hand exerciser.

[BiigM]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

One of the great misconceptions with bass playing and guitar playing for that matter is that the fingers are "weak" and need to be exercised in order to have the muscle in order to properly play the instrument. This couldn't be further from the truth. There are many people who develop carpal tunnel with those hand grip devices, and I can guarantee you that no pro uses one. In fact, the famous composer Robert Schumann had to stop his performance career because he developed extreme RSI's in both hands from "exercising" his pinky and ring finger with a device he created for the purpose.

All brute muscle strength in bass playing and guitar playing comes from the forearms and on up the arm to the shoulder. This is why its important to keep your wrists straight while playing. If you take your arms out and face your forearms at each other (keeping your wrists straight), lock your pinkies together, then pull against them. You'll find you can exert an incredible amount of brute strength. You never see an upright bass player with a hand exerciser, even though the pressure they deal on the strings with is far, far greater than us bass guitarists. They learn to control that strength and transfer it to the hands.

The reason why you think your pinky is weak is because you haven't trained the muscles that you have to do what you want with them, not because they aren't "strong enough". Its a matter of finesse and dexterity. Simply practicing scales or arpeggios or whathaveyou with the pinky is what you need to do, not use a hand exerciser.

Well Said!

[Billnc]

Think about this, I have 8 to 10 year old students (and older of course!), they are strong enough to play stringed instruments.

[Din Of Win]

Originally Posted by BiigM

Well Said!

+1 !!!

[Bassorama57]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

The reason why you think your pinky is weak is because you haven't trained the muscles that you have to do what you want with them, not because they aren't "strong enough". Its a matter of finesse and dexterity. Simply practicing scales or arpeggios or whathaveyou with the pinky is what you need to do, not use a hand exerciser.

Sad but true. If you feel obligated to get something along these lines, get one of those little wedges you can rub your finger tips on to build up callouses. Order a copy of "Bass Fitness" by des Pres, and practice the arpeggios in there.

[BiigM]

Originally Posted by Bassorama57

Sad but true. If you feel obligated to get something along these lines, get one of those little wedges you can rub your finger tips on to build up callouses. Order a copy of "Bass Fitness" by des Pres, and practice the arpeggios in there.

Explain that wedge thingy please :-)

[foq1978]

WOW, thanks a lot for all the directions.

I'll be using my varigrip to exercise my right hand for tennis, then.

[RAM]

Great advice already given here!

IMO, those finger strengthener devices do no good but can potentially harm you! The single best way to improve finger strength is to practice, practice, practice! When you practice, try running scales and make sure you pay attention to your "weakest" finger(s) so they get the attention they need. Don't over do it, but make sure they're getting a good workout.

Those so-called finger-strengthener-devices actually increase muscle mass in a way you don't want to do so. Playing bass (or any string instrument) requires a different type of dexterity and mobility.

A parallel to this is running. You won't see sprinters working heavy weights for their legs because they add unnecessary bulk which can actually slow them down. Similarly, if you add unnecessary bulk and strength to either of your hands, you'll have similar problems. Furthermore, to much strength and bulk can actually do damage, and it can, on occasion, inhibit certain flexibility and dexterity, definitely things you want to avoid when playing bass!

If it were up to me, I'd see those stupid devices taken off the market!

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

One of the great misconceptions with bass playing and guitar playing for that matter is that the fingers are "weak" and need to be exercised in order to have the muscle in order to properly play the instrument. This couldn't be further from the truth.

Sorry but this is simply not true. There are so many reasons why hands are weak and you do need muscular strength in the shape of stamina to play, that is a fact. That fact is backed up by any data reasearch on muscular or dextrous movement

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

The reason why you think your pinky is weak is because you haven't trained the muscles that you have to do what you want with them, not because they aren't "strong enough". Its a matter of finesse and dexterity. Simply practicing scales or arpeggios or whathaveyou with the pinky is what you need to do, not use a hand exerciser.

This is so true, scales and arps are one of the best ways to exercise your hands on the bass with target specific exercises and this is true away from the bass with hand exercises. The varigrip is a bad tool to use because those who use it do not know when is starts to do damage. Also until it is examined no one, and i mean one can say why your pinky is weak so no one can tell you how to fix the problem, especially on a web forum.

As for other examples sited by other including up-right players and young children, this is also not true.

Fact is young children have more and less bones in the bodies at different stages of their development. This is because wrist and ankle are developing. In the case of these parts of the body, bones are fusing together to make larger bones and joints.
A childs wrist is more supple because of this process till after puberty when this process is finished. So what children can and cannot do with un-developed bone structure cannot be seen as a fact. In many cases playing to early will cause problems if the development of such bones and joints are comprimised by stress and strain at a to early age.
The up-right bass situation. The movement of the hand and wrist is an up-right plane, controlled by the natural movement and joints of the body. We have the natural movement to face out palms toward us and lift them up high or low and keep the facing towards us. This action is controlled by the elbow and wrist. This action is a direct result of our ability to climb up and down. The action of going out to the side with the palms as in playing guitar is completly different because the elbow does not work in that plane with the wrist. So again this comparrison with an up-right bass is not applicable.

http://eeshop.unl.edu/music.html

Above is just one link about musician related injuries. Bass player are just one small group of musicians that suffer injuries. Many are trained musicians in orchestras that are using techniques that are centuries old, and still they are the groups with the most injuries that are career threatning amongst profesional musicians.

The idea that "just playing" is the best way is flawed because "just playing" is what is causing these injuries.

Though it saddens me to tell you this, most of you will find this fact out later in life at some point.

[jschwalls]

My chiropractor told me to NOT use those hand strengthening machines... he said to avoid anything that doesn't use natural motion of the hands...

He did explain that squeezing a racquetball or something like it, was great for the hands and forearm, but warned against over use.. basically when it starts to burn.. stop.

I also exercise the "rebound" muscles of the hands, which is the opening of the hands not the closing..

Also advice I got from Bill Dickens years ago was to raise the action of your strings and practice like that.. I think he has something out called a buddah rope or whatever.. I just use a piece of old instrument cable..

[Mongo Slade]

Perhaps a good teacher could examine your hand technique and point you in the right direction. Remember that fulcrum-point leverage from your thumb on the other side of the neck will increase the perceived "strength" of your fingers. But if your technique is not correct, simply practicing it may not get you where you want to go. As the previous post mentioned, you might end up harming yourself.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Peace

[strappa]

my first bass guitar teacher had an exercise for this purpose

start your practice by doing this exercise for 5 minutes
at the first fret, starting on the G string play some combination of
1 2 3 4 and then the same combination on the D, A E and then back up A, D, G
do that for a minute and then change the combination 2 3 1 4
the combination is not important, just change it up

this will provide dexterity and stamina
and allow you to play runs using all 4 fingers across multiple strings

[RAM]

Originally Posted by strappa

my first bass guitar teacher had an exercise for this purpose

start your practice by doing this exercise for 5 minutes
at the first fret, starting on the G string play some combination of
1 2 3 4 and then the same combination on the D, A E and then back up A, D, G
do that for a minute and then change the combination 2 3 1 4
the combination is not important, just change it up

this will provide dexterity and stamina
and allow you to play runs using all 4 fingers across multiple strings

I totally agree with this. To make it more interesting, try creating your own exercises.

One thing I sometimes do is to set a goal. For example, practice it with a metronome playing it 10 times without a mistake, keeping it in time. If you make a mistake, you have to start back at 1. Play it until you can play it mistake-free 10 times (or whatever your goal is). Once you master it, try playing it faster the next time. If you have the means, it's even better to record yourself, since you might make small mistakes you won't pick up while you're playing, but will notice after the fact.

[HaVIC5]

Sorry but this is simply not true. There are so many reasons why hands are weak and you do need muscular strength in the shape of stamina to play, that is a fact. That fact is backed up by any data reasearch on muscular or dextrous movement.

Please link to this data research as it directly pertains to bass playing. Otherwise, I stand by my statement. You don't need muscle mass in the hands. The entire apparatus from the shoulder to the finger tips is involved with the physical movement required to play bass, and, as evidenced by the demonstration with locking the pinkies you'll find you don't need any "strength training" to play bass. All technical development is training of the muscles you already have.

Here is Gary Willis explaining it better than I.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc

This is so true, scales and arps are one of the best ways to exercise your hands on the bass with target specific exercises and this is true away from the bass with hand exercises. The varigrip is a bad tool to use because those who use it do not know when is starts to do damage. Also until it is examined no one, and i mean one can say why your pinky is weak so no one can tell you how to fix the problem, especially on a web forum.

The varigrip is a bad idea, period. Find me one industry pro who recommends one. There isn't a single good reason to use it.

His pinky is weak, but it doesn't matter at all. The muscles in the forearm aren't.

The up-right bass situation. The movement of the hand and wrist is an up-right plane, controlled by the natural movement and joints of the body. We have the natural movement to face out palms toward us and lift them up high or low and keep the facing towards us. This action is controlled by the elbow and wrist. This action is a direct result of our ability to climb up and down. The action of going out to the side with the palms as in playing guitar is completly different because the elbow does not work in that plane with the wrist. So again this comparrison with an up-right bass is not applicable.

And why isn't this acceptable? You just stated that they are on a "different plane" (whatever that means), but really have added nothing to understanding why it isn't acceptable. First of all the angle of the elbow is identical between upright bass and electric bass, and so it doesn't really matter about what it's position in space is - the muscles in the forearm are going to act the same. Position of the elbow in space is controlled by the shoulder, and we aren't necessarily talking about that either. The way an upright bass player grips the string and fingers with the pinky is dependent wholly on the forearm and the wrist just as an electric bass player, as well as guitarist, cellist, violinist, etc. You've never heard of any of the other instrumental schools recommending "hand strengtheners", so why should bass/guitar have them? The fundamentals of performance ring true across the board.

Side note, are you classically trained and proficient on upright bass? If not, do you play one regularly?

http://eeshop.unl.edu/music.html

Above is just one link about musician related injuries. Bass player are just one small group of musicians that suffer injuries. Many are trained musicians in orchestras that are using techniques that are centuries old, and still they are the groups with the most injuries that are career threatning amongst profesional musicians.

And how many aren't trained musicians that are using techniques that aren't centuries old? Probably one hell of a lot more than those who are. That was a big red herring if I've ever seen one. The large majority of classically trained professional musicians have minimal health issues for the exact reason that they are body-aware and have spent significant amounts of time with safe technical training.

Good site, though.

The idea that "just playing" is the best way is flawed because "just playing" is what is causing these injuries.

I never said that, don't twist my words. Remember, this thread was about getting better with the pinky, not some omnibus compendium on technique. The way that I and everybody else got better with their pinky was not with a hand exerciser, but rather, quite simply, playing with their pinky. How is that poor advice? We're not discussing nuance of wrist or thumb placement here.

Though it saddens me to tell you this, most of you will find this fact out later in life at some point.

What, that playing with your pinky is bad for your technique? That things that are harmful are bad for you? What exactly was your point here?

[RAM]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Please link to this data research as it directly pertains to bass playing. Otherwise, I stand by my statement. You don't need muscle mass in the hands. The entire apparatus from the shoulder to the finger tips is involved with the physical movement required to play bass, and, as evidenced by the demonstration with locking the pinkies you'll find you don't need any "strength training" to play bass. All technical development is training of the muscles you already have.

Here is Gary Willis explaining it better than I.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_oBJlE5qNc



The varigrip is a bad idea, period. Find me one industry pro who recommends one. There isn't a single good reason to use it.

His pinky is weak, but it doesn't matter at all. The muscles in the forearm aren't.



And why isn't this acceptable? You just stated that they are on a "different plane" (whatever that means), but really have added nothing to understanding why it isn't acceptable. First of all the angle of the elbow is identical between upright bass and electric bass, and so it doesn't really matter about what it's position in space is - the muscles in the forearm are going to act the same. Position of the elbow in space is controlled by the shoulder, and we aren't necessarily talking about that either. The way an upright bass player grips the string and fingers with the pinky is dependent wholly on the forearm and the wrist just as an electric bass player, as well as guitarist, cellist, violinist, etc. You've never heard of any of the other instrumental schools recommending "hand strengtheners", so why should bass/guitar have them? The fundamentals of performance ring true across the board.

Side note, are you classically trained and proficient on upright bass? If not, do you play one regularly?



And how many aren't trained musicians that are using techniques that aren't centuries old? Probably one hell of a lot more than those who are. That was a big red herring if I've ever seen one. The large majority of classically trained professional musicians have minimal health issues for the exact reason that they are body-aware and have spent significant amounts of time with safe technical training.

Good site, though.



I never said that, don't twist my words. Remember, this thread was about getting better with the pinky, not some omnibus compendium on technique. The way that I and everybody else got better with their pinky was not with a hand exerciser, but rather, quite simply, playing with their pinky. How is that poor advice? We're not discussing nuance of wrist or thumb placement here.



What, that playing with your pinky is bad for your technique? That things that are harmful are bad for you? What exactly was your point here?

To further back your point, classically trained upright bassists do not use their ring finger except in conjunction with either their middle finger (more common) or pinky. There's far less finger independence between the middle and ring fingers than the others.

There is absolutely no reason (aside from certain individual medical conditions) a pinky couldn't be strong enough to perform any maneuver on the bass that others could do without using one of those stupid so-called "strengthening devices". If the pinky isn't strong enough, it can be strengthened using and practicing proper fingering. Nothing else.

[Billnc]

Fergie Fulton. Obviously your knowledge is extensive and I've agreed or learned from many of your posts. Regarding 8 or 9 year olds, in 23 years of private lessons I've never encountered one getting injured playing guitar. 10, 15 minutes a day on an appropriately sized guitar seems fine. Many seem to naturally have fair technique.

[Fergie Fulton]

Hi all and again we have the situation of this sort of thing getting personal and passionate because it is with playing music.
Why such long answers? Because to understand i need to inform of why this can be so.
I am with you on the varigrip as it is it's application that cannot be controlled and that makes it un-safe. As for naming one pro that has used one why? Do you mean pro or famous?
Find lots of bass players that have used one and there you'll find your answers, stories and testimonials on why they are bad or good for the players that used them. Understand this if you are a pro, you are deemed good enough to pay, so therefore earn a living out of music. With that it is taken your skills are in place so the problems that learners have are completley different to that of a pro.
Also understand over-use and miss-use it is the most common by far injury in players.

Also as i said no one can make decisions about physical problems and such things on line...no one. To do so is incompetent, irresponsable, dangerous, and wreckless to the person you are giving the advice to. As in the OP and his pinky.

Closed rupture of the FDP tendon is rare. However, whenever they occur the most common site of rupture is the tendon-bone insertion, less frequent site is at the musculo-tendinous junction. Midsubstance ruptures are even more unique and are usually due to underlying pathology such as fracture, cystic degeneration, rheumatoid arthritis, or sequel following local steroid injection. This report describes a closed rupture of FDP tendon of little finger. Mechanism of injury, diagnosis and management are discusse

Above is just one example of injury i have in my research files, it is a large paper so above is just the injury, and i know it says its rare, but the injury occured. So If the OP gets this or a similar injury because of advice he got here then i suppose it doesn't matter because "that never happend to me when i done it" answer makes it OK??.

IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DANGERS OF THE ADVICE YOU GIVE , DONT GIVE IT.

Playing the bass is case specific. By that i mean we can all do the same but get different results. This is because of our own personal critera to the task/learning at hand.

So my answer to the OP on why use the varigrip is yes it will help in the short term but why use it? What is short term? I don't know. Is there better and safer ways to develop the little finger? Yes many better and safer ways? What are they? I don't know because i don't know you hands history of injury, illness and what condition they are in now. So see a physio or medical pro and find out if there is a medical reason for this problem in you little finger.

Havoc5

His pinky is weak, but it doesn't matter at all. The muscles in the forearm aren't.

And you know this how? Straight question, straight answer.
Again you know this, how?

Quote:
The idea that "just playing" is the best way is flawed because "just playing" is what is causing these injuries.
I never said that, don't twist my words. Remember, this thread was about getting better with the pinky, not some omnibus compendium on technique. The way that I and everybody else got better with their pinky was not with a hand exerciser, but rather, quite simply, playing with their pinky. How is that poor advice? We're not discussing nuance of wrist or thumb placement here.

I said that not you, these are my word not your being twisted, so please read post with objectivity not with your own personal view of what is being said.
Yes i agree that it was a little finger question, but you in what you posted as fact needed to be addressed. These things are long and complicated so they cannot just be glossed over. The fact that you do not have the medical understanding of what you say makes it harder. You say "i and everybody else" i count 7 posts, sorry but that is not everybody else??????

The Gary Willis link is good i have seen i before and debated the many points he gets wrong as well as the many he gets right.
If you want to post and debate any specific point Gary has made i will go over them from a mechanics of playing view for anyone that has a question. Gary like myself, is going with the information we know at this moment in time, maybe i know more than Gary?
While we are here, Plane is the angle of the instrument to the body, so an up right bass is a vertical plane and an electric is a horizontal plane. Put you bass in and vertical position then a horizontal position and see which one give easy and more access, not playability at this moment, because that would have to be learnt, but easy access to all frets. When it is in the vertical that F is not so hard to reach and play.

The little finger is on the ulnar side of the hand, the side of the hand that power is developed not dexterity. this is controlled by the ulnar side muscles in the forearm and the ulnar nerve. The ulnar nerve is one of the largest un-protected(in the sense of muscle and bone) nerves in the human body When playing we seek to change its function from a power function to a dextrous function. As it was never developed in the structure of the human anatomy for this function, certain problems will present themselves. You see what has happened here, in order for me to explain to you why something is so i have to explain anatomy to you so you have a better understanding of what is being said, that's why this subject is so deep and sometimes complicated. The hands function was certainly never developed for playing bass.

Billnc Fergie Fulton. Obviously your knowledge is extensive and I've agreed or learned from many of your posts. Regarding 8 or 9 year olds, in 23 years of private lessons I've never encountered one getting injured playing guitar. 10, 15 minutes a day on an appropriately sized guitar seems fine. Many seem to naturally have fair technique.

That is fine and what you are doing is proof that you teach is good. Ten to fifteen minutes is good and children will have a natural curiosity and aptitude for such things. I find it is stopping them from doing to much is the problem when they get hooked. If a child started when they we 9 and after 23 years that is only 33 years of age, problems in over use-miss-use will still be a long way off. Again not saying it will or you are wrong just pointing out a statistic. My friends father had a hip replacement, he is 59... Why? The joint was worn because he over-used miss-used it during his life. Why one? i don't know, but i do know that the ability to change hand and wrist joints is not there just now, so when its lost its gone.

For the record was classicaly trained (but not in bass) from an early age, that is why the training i was given was limited and in stages because it went with my physical development. I studied Anatomy, Physiology and Health (APH) Biology, and certain points of medicine to a practical level. I have been a pro player for over 35 years and in that time i have collected information, talked to players of all levels, talked to medical profesionals of all levels and skill about such problems player have. I have talked to and used Pysios, surgeons both hand and neuro, fitness trainers, ostepopaths etc. to get to where i am today. So if anyone thinks i am just guessing or making stuff up, take any of what i say to a medical pro and ask him.
I play for numourus bands and Artists in the UK and USA and am always working so this allows me to continue collecting info as i go. I am not some one just looking for something to do, in fact the opposite i would like to spend more time researching this subject. I don't have all the answers but i do have more than most on why or why not, and leave the decision to the person now armed with the relevent information to make up his own mind.

[Bassorama57]

Originally Posted by BiigM

Explain that wedge thingy please :-)

This thingie!
http://www.music123.com/Ruff-Rider-R...34581.Music123

Ruff Rider - if you're a nervous cat and like playing "pocket ball," just finger this thing while you're in idle mode.

[Mongo Slade]

Just wondering- is it your pinky on your plucking hand or on your fretting hand that feels weak?

Peace