fingerstyle = can't cut it in metal?

[BrandonBass]

I find that the bass can be barely audible in the presence of 2 distorted guitars if played with fingers...and i think the band can just fill up the bottom end by boosting the bass freq of the guitars

say cliff burton you cant really hear him in the mix unless theres no guitar playing. think orion solo, for whom the bell tolls etc

steve harris dont really count since iron maiden is not really that 'heavy' the guitars are more to the overdriven side than distortion plus i think they cut their bass frequency quite abit.

what do you think?

[73jbass]

Iron Maiden,not that heavy? Please! Steve Harris and the like use a lot of top end which helps them stand out. And he's competing with 3 guitars on stage.If you use a more traditional bass tone,boost your mids,and low mids if you can do so. That's where a variable mid control comes in handy.Give it a shot.

[olaff421]

I'm not saying you're wrong, and it has been awile since I've seen any live Maiden, and only a home video at that. I never remember them playing with 3 guitars. If it's a new line up, then I guess I need to brush up on my modern Maiden.

[trasser]

I've been playing with a metal band since december, also fingerstyle, and i also encountered the same problems when I started.
With two guitarists, and me as the insecure new guy, I just played the root notes, and I too felt that I wouldn't be missed if I wasn't at band practice.

Then I really started leaning up against the drums, playing what ever he was kicking, and, depending on how good the drummer is, this really demands speed, and of course I couldn't cut that in the beginning, but I just kept on going, and if you do that, your speed will greatly improve, and that of course helps you in other styles as well.

Then I tried, when they where playing a chord progression, to play a sort of melodic bass line over it, and doing it from about the 7th fret and upwards - this really makes the bass stand out, and I got huge feedback, both from the guys in the band, and from their fan crowd.

Don't worry if you sometimes play the on the bottom of your fretboard, even though you don't seem to stand out - your ARE needed, and if you always play on the high frets, I would say you where overplaying.
But trying to play something melodic is my approach, and it has really helped me stand out and being noticed in the band.
Hope this is useful to you.

[BrandonBass]

Originally Posted by 73jbass

Iron Maiden,not that heavy? Please! Steve Harris and the like use a lot of top end which helps them stand out. And he's competing with 3 guitars on stage.If you use a more traditional bass tone,boost your mids,and low mids if you can do so. That's where a variable mid control comes in handy.Give it a shot.

sorry, but from the first time i heard iron maiden they never really seem heavy to say metallica, slayer or pantera. The maiden plays little power chords n stuff, theyre more to riffs with overdrive guitar think 'hallowed be thy name', 'trooper' etc.

and I do play with my mids, infact I play at the bridge, cut the bass and boost the mids. But it still doesnt cut thru as much as i would like.

and to the guy above thanks for the tip, but im nt at the lvl where i can improvise good yet :-(

[idoru]

In a word: Opeth. Fingerstyle J-bass, two guitars and insane levels of brutality!

You _cut_ the bass on your eq? You mention playing at the bridge, that takes a fair amount of the thump out of your sound too. What gear are you using?

Here's a quick suggestion:
Next practice, set all your eq flat to begin with. Make adjustments as you play until you find something that fits.

Also, as you said, it's not all about the bass. Sometimes the guitars need to be told to lay off the bottom a bit. It can be a big problem with over-scooped EQ, or what I like to call "bedroom tone". If palm mutes get too woofy, that's a bad sign. They should be chuggy, not sludgy.

It took me 6 months to get 'my' tone together, and 2 years for our guitarist.

[Misanthropologi]

Try plucking more lightly, and then increasing the amp's volume to compensate. A lighter touch can give better tone. That way more of the bass's character comes through, rather than a shapeless thump.

[saxnbass]

I used to play in a metal band. I used my Warwick bass and my Behringer stack (don't have the stack anymore). I did not distort the bass. The band was heavy, screaming, distortion, double bass drum pedals, the whole metal shabang. Anyways, I played fingerstyle, I think it's all in the EQ.

[Poop-Loops]

Originally Posted by BrandonBass

sorry, but from the first time i heard iron maiden they never really seem heavy to say metallica, slayer or pantera. The maiden plays little power chords n stuff, theyre more to riffs with overdrive guitar think 'hallowed be thy name', 'trooper' etc.

and I do play with my mids, infact I play at the bridge, cut the bass and boost the mids. But it still doesnt cut thru as much as i would like.

and to the guy above thanks for the tip, but im nt at the lvl where i can improvise good yet :-(

Metal is a lot of things. If you want to play Death Metal or something, look at Steve Digiorgio. He can cut through.

If you just want to stick to the root while one or both of the guitarists pump out power chords, then good luck.

You might actually have to be creative.

[BrandonBass]

i dont listen to many digiorgio stuff, any recommendations?

[txbasschik]

Geezer Butler plays fingerstyle.

Black Sabbath.

'Nuff sed.

Cherie

[Alec W. Conway]

In all frank honnesty with no offense meant : you need to learn more metal.

I know tons of bands in which the bass has a nice comfy audible place in the mix.

Opeth
Death
Stratovarius
Vintersorg
Symphony X
Martyr
Augury
Quo Vadis
Watchtower
Spiral Architect
Edguy
Finntroll
Helloween
etc etc etc etc...

[Rich600]

Sikth, the Dillinger Escape Plan, Poison the Well, Converge, just a few more for the list, oh and Otep, their bassist is nuts.

[PrimusNut]

I think that a bit of overdrive can help for finger style.

I agree with the Sabbath comment. Geezer really stands out.

[TheInsane]

Alot of it is having a good sound for the bass which distinguishes it from the guitars and the drums. Also, the bass will be more audible if you dont just play root notes. I tend to try to mix it all up. First off I try to get a tone that cuts through and is audible in itself. Then I dont wanna follow the guitars at all times but try to do some different things.

And then there is the mix of course. In a live situation it can be a hit or a miss depending on the soundguy. If you record something then as always be sure to have a good tone and you might want to be there when they mix or master the cd so that they dont push the bass to the back. In metal that can be a problem.

I dont think fingerstyle really has much to do with not having an audible bass. You can always get a sound from the amp alone with EQ that makes the bass stand out more.

[PrimusNut]

I just remembered that Black Sabbath had only 1 guitarist.

Cliff Burton actually did cut through on a lot of the stuff. I think his tone on the song No Remorse was great, as with most of the rest of Kill 'Em All.

[ETEcarmine]

Fingerstyle and pickstyle do have different sounds, but one definitely does not cut through better than the other. Depending on how you pluck the strings, fingerstyle can be even louder. It all depends on your finger picking technique and your eq. Experiment and have fun!

[tradition_2kill]

about 6 mounths ago when i joined my current band, tradition to kill { death metal from maine} i chose to play with a pick, my fingers just couldnt cut it at the time. while i could certainly cut through {with my swr super redhead} i was never happy with the sound and feel of the pick. after a few months i decided to give my fingers another try, it sounded great at low volumes but my my fingers put out more low end than my little swr could dish out at the levels we play at {some clubs have little pa support}. about a month ago i traded in the swr towards a trace pre, a mackie power amp and a mesa powerhouse 1000 cab. the added power has made all the difference in the world.

[debozkurt]

I would say you can definitely play fingerstyle in Metal.

On a personal experience note, I am in a metal band myself....and although I prefer fingerstyle bass playing over picks by leaps and bounds, I find that for most uses in metal, I prefer that brightness and chunkiness of a pick...

In this Metal band, I try not to play anything too complex or too melodic during most of the songs. I find that in this genre of music, it is more tasteful to the music in general to hold down the low end, and do a solid job of that, adding what you can when appropriate. At least with 3 guitarists and keys it is....The less you have going on, the more musical space you have towork with, without detracting away from the song in general.

One thing I do, instead of just rooting one or two notes for an entire verse, is finding implied harmonies with the guitarists when they are off doing harmonized leading and solos and whatnot...That really helps fill the song out.

[nqabassist26]

Originally Posted by Alec W. Conway

In all frank honnesty with no offense meant : you need to learn more metal.

I know tons of bands in which the bass has a nice comfy audible place in the mix.

Opeth
Death
Stratovarius
Vintersorg
Symphony X
Martyr
Augury
Quo Vadis
Watchtower
Spiral Architect
Edguy
Finntroll
Helloween
etc etc etc etc...

+1
Good stuff, good stuff.


On a side note, I've played in a metal band finger and pick, my only problem with finger was speed. I still prefered the sound over pick anyway so I just kept going with it until I got alot faster.

Not sure that helps but I hope so!