Four fingers - 3 frets??

brian4xp · #1 07-17-2008, 12:32 PM

My son and I just started learning bass. At the end of our last session with our teacher I was about to buy a Mel Bay book and one of the employees at the store said "That's not the book where it says to use your 3rd and 4th fingers together is it?". We took a quick look and decided it wasn't "that book" but later when I got home found it WAS that book. It said for left hand use index finger on one fret, middle finger on the next fret, and ring and pinky on the 3rd fret. So I returned the book.

Next I ordered the "Hal Leonard Bass Method" from Amazon after seeing it highly recommended. It arrived today and while it doesn't say use 3rd & 4th fingers together it does say for left hand use 1st finger on 1st fret, 2nd finger on 2nd fret, and 4th finger (pinky) on 3rd fret.

Our teacher says 4 fingers for 4 frets. He said 4 fingers-3 frets is too limiting.

All the books I've seen so far say 3 frets. What's up with that? I mean, yeah, it means you don't have to stretch but how many players actually use that technique? I keep seeing posts on here about USING your pinky.

JustOpenYourMind · #2 07-17-2008, 12:43 PM

The 4 finger 3 frets is a direct translation of a Double bass technique. On electric bass, the notes are closer together and 1 finger per fret is optimal and better for playing intricate lines.

However I'm sure that soon some people that have been using the 3 finger technique for years will come in and say it's better.

My oppinion is that more fingers = economy of movement and less position shifting.

Juggling.Arcs · #3 07-17-2008, 12:45 PM

I think (and I am a very new player) that this is a remnant from upright bass. On the UB the proverbial frets are farther apart and so you finger it like your first book suggested.

For bass guitar I use the For dummies book and have been happy so far. I have a hard time with a full four fret stretch (I play fretless so getting my intonation right is hard) but it is what is suggested so all of the chord patterns and scale patterns work easily.

Hope that helps
Juggling.Arcs

Marcury · #4 07-17-2008, 12:52 PM

As sated this is DB classic DB technique. It can be useful on EB too. Personally I use both 134 and 1234.

fretlessman71 · #5 07-17-2008, 12:59 PM

Carol Kaye, the respected 45 year studio veteran, uses and recommends the 1-2-4 approach. It is a holdover, but it is useful for people with small hands AND bass parts where you don't need to stretch out over a 4 fret spread (i.e., root/5 type bass lines).

I use 1-2-4, 1-2-3-4, AND (1)-1-2-3-4 (a 5-fret spread where the 1st finger covers two frets' worth of territory). It depends on what the song calls for.

I think 1-2-3-4 makes more sense to start; it's easy to guess what finger is supposed to play notes on what fret this way. If the student has to shift his/her hand to make it work at first, that's okay. It's more of a mindset than a style. But there is validity to the 1-2-4 fretting hand technique.

lomo · #6 07-17-2008, 01:04 PM

Most electric players will use 4 fingers/4 frets unless the players hand is simply too small.

Ric5 · #7 07-17-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian4xp

the "Hal Leonard Bass Method" from Amazon after seeing it highly recommended. It arrived today and while it doesn't say use 3rd & 4th fingers together it does say for left hand use 1st finger on 1st fret, 2nd finger on 2nd fret, and 4th finger (pinky) on 3rd fret.

That's the method I use. My ring finger on my left hand gets very little usage for fretting strings.

HaVIC5 · #8 07-17-2008, 01:13 PM

If you ever spend much time in the 1st position on a 35" bass, you'll know why electric bassists often use 124 technique.

The whole one-finger-per-fret thing is good and all, but severely limiting and possibly dangerous when you're below the 5th fret. Not recommended down there. Using both is definitely the best way to go.

rarisgod · #9 07-17-2008, 01:13 PM

It depends on the size of the hand, I think, but in MOST cases it seems to me that it would be much more effective to play one finger per fret. Jaco said it himself, and he played fretless most of the time.
Really, I don't see how only using the equivalent of three fingers can allow the full extent of one's ability when playing the bass. It makes more sense to use four fingers, that's why you HAVE four fingers! In fact, you could also eventually learn to stretch four fingers across a five fret range. Even 6 in some cases.

HaVIC5 · #10 07-17-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rarisgod

It depends on the size of the hand, I think, but in MOST cases it seems to me that it would be much more effective to play one finger per fret. Jaco said it himself, and he played fretless most of the time.
Really, I don't see how only using the equivalent of three fingers can allow the full extent of one's ability when playing the bass. It makes more sense to use four fingers, that's why you HAVE four fingers!

Tell that to an upright bassist. They'll straight up laugh at you.

Zooberwerx · #11 07-17-2008, 01:18 PM

Conservation of energy. I use a combination of 1-2-4 and 1-2-3-4 fingerings although the 1-2-4 loses efficacy beyond the 7th fret IME. This holds true for both 34" and 35" scale instruments.

Riis

rarisgod · #12 07-17-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Tell that to an upright bassist. They'll straight up laugh at you.

I'm saying this for electric bass. Obviously for double bass, it's a lot more practical.

HaVIC5 · #13 07-17-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rarisgod

I'm saying this for electric bass. Obviously for double bass, it's a lot more practical.

The point is that just because you have four fingers doesn't mean its necessarily practical to use all four, upright bass is the perfect example - you don't start to abandon the 124 technique until thumb position, which starts at the 12th "fret". I would love to see you pedal octaves on the low F and the F above it with fingers one and three for any length of time. Actually, I don't, because I don't want you to hurt yourself, but my point is made. Its even further made if you play a fretless, where you can't get away with laziness by playing in the middle of two frets.

Audiophage · #14 07-17-2008, 03:03 PM

I'm a double bassist and use the classic Simandl technique for most of what I do on that. However, for electric I've worked out a way of playing with 124 in the lowest 2 positions, and using all 4 for everywhere else, sometimes even when playing more intricate lines in the low positions. My point is, the only way you're going to limit yourself is if you ignore all of the possibilities.

onlyclave · #15 07-17-2008, 03:05 PM

I'm with HaVic5 on this. 1 2 4 is a totally valid and effective fingering on electric bass. I switch to 1 2 3 4 above the 5th fret and actually use thumb position type fingerings above the 17th fret.

It is effective because 1) Your ring finger shares a flexor with your pinkie and 2) The natural distance between 1-2 is a half step, 2-4 is a half step. You lose zero efficiency and mobility with this method. Besides, I bet a lot of you guys who are screaming "1 2 3 4 only!" are only using 1 2 and 3 in "Half" and "First" position on electric bass.

This argument is very old. See "Simandl" and "Bille"

EADG mx · #16 07-17-2008, 03:09 PM

I agree with Havic and onlyclave. I use both. 1 2 3 4 in the lower registers is just uncomfortable. I don't like making my instrument harder to play than it has to be.

Sahm · #17 07-17-2008, 03:17 PM

1-2-3-4 is the core position to start from. As you start leaning more complex lines, you may find it more comfortable to use 1-2-4. For example, if you have a highly repetitive line with tons of octaves in it, 1-2-4 may be the way to go for you. I use it alot in "What Is Hip?".

brian4xp · #18 07-17-2008, 05:22 PM

When asking our teacher about right technique he said there is a generally accepted way to do it, BUT whatever works for you and what you are comfortable with.

For example, when sitting I have the bass on my left leg and the neck at a higher angle. Just what I'm comfortable with. He and my son both have the bass on the right leg and more horizontal. He said both ways are fine, do what works for you. Now he did call my son on his original position, where he was slouching back in the chair and had him sit upright and hold the bass upright instead of slanting it back almost flat in his lap.

Lots of good discussion here. Thanks for clearing things up for me.

FWIW, as I was looking through the Hal Leonard books further I found in book 2 they bring up the one finger per fret method.

mutedeity · #19 07-17-2008, 06:10 PM

I don't really think it's a matter of what is right or wrong. Personally I use one finger per fret. I don't see why it shouldn't be done on electric bass, even in the lower positions. I recommend Peter Murray's "Essential Bass Technique" as a good technical guide that covers efficient four finger technique. Most of the issues about efficient use of the right hand (assuming we are talking about right hand players) is the position of the thumb.

HaVIC5 · #20 07-17-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutedeity

I don't really think it's a matter of what is right or wrong. Personally I use one finger per fret. I don't see why it shouldn't be done on electric bass, even in the lower positions. I recommend Peter Murray's "Essential Bass Technique" as a good technical guide that covers efficient four finger technique. Most of the issues about efficient use of the right hand (assuming we are talking about right hand players) is the position of the thumb.

If you can do my octave exercise comfortably with OFPF, I'll completely relearn my fingering habits, but until then, the low end gets 124.