Fret Hand Fatigue

[stodgers]

Hey all,

Sorry if this is not the right forum - wasn't sure where to post. I bought a Spector 5-string last month. I've played Jazz basses for 8-9 years, but this is the first fiver I've owned - I like the feel and tone, esp. the B-string, when I played it at the store, so I decided to go for it. But now I'm having real problems with my fret hand - particularly my thumb.

My question for the more experienced folks: is this a matter of adjusting to the wider neck and longer scale of the Spector 5 vs. Jazz 4, and will just take some getting used to or require a change in playing position? Or am I risking damage and should consider taking a step back?

I'm considering re-stringing one of my jazz basses with a low B and just going with that, but am I rushing to a decision?

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by stodgers

Hey all,

Sorry if this is not the right forum - wasn't sure where to post. I bought a Spector 5-string last month. I've played Jazz basses for 8-9 years, but this is the first fiver I've owned - I like the feel and tone, esp. the B-string, when I played it at the store, so I decided to go for it. But now I'm having real problems with my fret hand - particularly my thumb.

My question for the more experienced folks: is this a matter of adjusting to the wider neck and longer scale of the Spector 5 vs. Jazz 4, and will just take some getting used to or require a change in playing position? Or am I risking damage and should consider taking a step back?

I'm considering re-stringing one of my jazz basses with a low B and just going with that, but am I rushing to a decision?

If you really like the Spector, I'd give it a little more time before making a decision... I play both 4s and 5s, and no doubt about it - the 5ers are more physically demanding...

That being said, after a couple of years of playing Spector 5ers(a pair of Q5's), I found that 34" scale basses are more comfortable to me... Even though I liked the sounds I got from my Spectors, I sent them down the road and switched over to Ibanez for my 5 string needs - this worked out much better for me... Then, I bought a couple of EBMM 5ers, and have been playing them and one Ibanez 5er - all 34" scale - and that's worked out pretty well for me...


- georgestrings

[Fetusyolk]

If the problem is just that your hand is getting a little tired, it could be a matter of getting used to the new neck and allowing your hand to develop and be able to handle it better, but if it's PAIN, than something is WRONG. Pain is always a serious matter and should be dealt with accordingly, sometimes it can be as simple as realizing that the neck does not need to be gripped so hard, or sometimes it's a bit deeper than that, i couldn't accurately say because of the limit of our knowledge on your personal matter, but a tip that i never hesitate to give everyone is: STRETCH before, and after playing. And learn to stretch correctly.

[John Wentzien]

This is exactly what happens to me when I try to play a 5...
4 for me..too stuck in my ways after 40 years...i guess.

[Caca de Kick]

The Spector Euro/Czech NS5 was one of my best sounding 5 strings ever. But after 2 years as a main player, my hand and wrist just would not take anymore of the 35" scale reach because the neck sticks out even further than usual from the body because of the bridge positioning being well away from the body edge.

[grendle]

Sounds like bad technique. An inch over 3 feet isn't much and shouldn't cause an issue. When you say your thumb is an issue, are you using the "baseball bat" technique? If so, that's just bad all over. The neck on the 5 is wider but not crazy wide. Try playing with the bass a little higher.

[mntngrown]

After much research and many basses in and out, for me it comes down to a well balanced bass. If your bass has no "neck dive" issues, you can adjust the relationship between the body and neck with a strapped bass to keep your fretting hand/wrist in the most relaxed posistion. Often recommended is the "classical guitar" angle. Neck at a 45 degree angle or more, so your wrist stays straight(ish).
If your fret hand/wrist is bent at 90 like some young band guys problems may eventually follow. Gary Willis videos explain this in detail.

[Kwesi]

Masturbate more.

[darkstorm]

You may or may not get comfortable with the wider neck. ive played a couple whose neck width was ok, slim fiver, but the back of neck profile was to thin. Top of frertboard to back center of neck being to shallow. This made for uncomfortable neck similiar to how to a over wide neck is uncomfortable to me. Finding a fiver whose neck is comfortable when one likes slim/fast neck four strings can difficult. Having a liked 2nd four string bass tuned BEAD as a alternative to a fiver works fine for a decent amount of folks. Thats probably the route Id take if I ever decided I really wanted the low B string.

Though some like wearing their basses high, I find that position to be opposite what works best for me and many others. When worn low to medium low with neck pointing upward some, fretting is actually easier. Your arms less outstretched and wrist/palm postion is better. For some this might not work well but for others it increases playing ability nicely. Theres absolutely no reason to try to mimic seated playing postition while standing.

[sloppy_phil]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Masturbate more.

ahahahahaha! i never laugh out loud at things on the interwebz, but this definitely got a hearty guffaw.

Advice better than I can offer has already been given, so i'll refrain from interjecting my own bullsh!t opinion

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by grendle

An inch over 3 feet isn't much and shouldn't cause an issue.

There are plenty of experienced players that would disagree... After playing 35" 5ers for a couple of years, then switching to 34", I definitely noticed the difference - particularly while playing a 4-5 hour gig... I didn't experience any pain from playing 35'' scales, but it certainly increased the feeling of fatigue during the tail end of a long gig...

To me, switching to a bass that was more comfortable was a better move than playing the bass higher...


- georgestrings

[grendle]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

There are plenty of experienced players that would disagree... After playing 35" 5ers for a couple of years, then switching to 34", I definitely noticed the difference - particularly while playing a 4-5 hour gig... I didn't experience any pain from playing 35'' scales, but it certainly increased the feeling of fatigue during the tail end of a long gig...

To me, switching to a bass that was more comfortable was a better move than playing the bass higher...

- georgestrings

Do you think the fatigue was from ant further movement or from increased tension of the strings? For me I find the 35" scale more comfortable, with the neck shape being the more determining factor for any hand fatigue.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Masturbate more.

This is good advice on so many levels.

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

There are plenty of experienced players that would disagree... After playing 35" 5ers for a couple of years, then switching to 34", I definitely noticed the difference - particularly while playing a 4-5 hour gig... I didn't experience any pain from playing 35'' scales, but it certainly increased the feeling of fatigue during the tail end of a long gig...

To me, switching to a bass that was more comfortable was a better move than playing the bass higher...


- georgestrings

+1
When switching from 4-string to 5-string (34" to 35" scale), I have felt some fatigue in my shoulder after awhile. Once I've used the 5 string for several session, it fades away. Also after playing bass exclusively for a long time (several months), when I finally got back on my Fender Strat I experienced fatigue in my elbow and thumb for a session or two. The Strat's neck is considerably shorter, of course, than my bass necks.

Yes, I think even one inch can make a difference when you're talking about ergonomics. I think that it can be a case of just relaxing and allowing your body to decide where/how to hold the instrument for maximum comfort. I find that if I relax and don't try to force my body to hold the instrument in a certain place or in a certain way, my body will naturally find the most relaxed position to hold the instrument. It's not the same spot or the same way with every instrument. Treat each instrument as an individual with a unique relationship with you. The instrument will tell you where/how you need to hold it best.

[Gr8tbass]

Try using lower tention strings. I've tried Fodera's light gauge strings and it made playing less fatigue.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by grendle

Do you think the fatigue was from ant further movement or from increased tension of the strings? For me I find the 35" scale more comfortable, with the neck shape being the more determining factor for any hand fatigue.

For me, string tension wasn't any part of it - after all, I tend to play fairly heavy strings on my 4 strings, and my standard tuned Fenders have atleast as much string tension as my Spectors ever had... It was the combination of my fretting hand being farther away, and the longer stretch between frets while playing in the lower positions - which is where I tend to spend a majority of my playing time - particularly on a 5er... I'm one of those guys that plays a 5er for it's lower notes - it allows me to cover the genres I play more easily...

The differences between 35" and 34" are very real *for me* - I had a pair of Spector Q5s, a Schecter Stiletto Elite-5, and an Ibanez BTB575 for 35" scale 5ers, and atleast ten 34" scale 5ers - including Ibanez sr Series 405, 505, 535, 655PB, 755, 905, and 3005 Prestige... I currently still own the sr905, an EBMM SR5 HH, and MM SUB5 - all 34" scale 5ers, besides a bunch of Fender 4 strings...

YMMV, but that's how I see it...


-georgestrings

[spade2you]

Hang the bass at the right height and don't play with a death grip on the neck and you'll be fine. Everything else is just compensating for bad technique.

[Fergie Fulton]

Thumb issue, let the thumb go to where it wants to go. Thumb issues are usually a blend of tension and trying to hold it static, as in always in the middle of the neck.
Now that idea was fine when all basses were very close in design, scale and dimension and neck scales we negligible to the average size of a players hand. Now a days with so many designs and extended range instruments, the idea of standard thumb placement can be seen to be flawed.
For example, depending on the width and depth of a neck, thumb placements in relation to fingers on some extended range basses can be so far out that on a standard P or J bass, the thumb would be directly behind the E or G string rather than in the middle of the neck during playing.

Best advice is look after the hand and fingers and just let the thumb go where it needs to, not where a book or an idea says it should, after all a if you buy a certain model of bass the neck scales will all be the same, but the hands of those using them will all vary to such an extent that some will cope other won't.

As for you dilemma, change the bass and get one to suit you, rather than you adapt to the bass, as i said lots of basses, lots of styles, you should find one that suits your physical needs.

[stodgers]

Thanks for all the input - even on my need to masturbate more. I'll take all into consideration, but am thinking the low-strung Jazz may be the way to go.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by stodgers

Thanks for all the input - even on my need to masturbate more. I'll take all into consideration, but am thinking the low-strung Jazz may be the way to go.

Remember to work both hands and visualise