Fretless with Lines?

[pi_r_squared]

I think this is a "technique" topic. If not, admin feel free to move it.

Just made a fretless neck, my inaugural plunge into building (more to come on that "experience" in another topic), and made it "lineless" as well as fretless.

I'm a relative noob, playing for a couple years. Looking at fretless basses, both new and de-fretted, and I'm having trouble understanding the whole point of lines on the fretboard. It seems obvious, until I paid careful attention while I was playing.

When I'm playing, and look at the neck, I don't see the face of the fretboard, only the top edge. If I do look to place my fingers, the only visual indication I get is seeing the frets "end-on".

It seems, fret markers on the edge of the neck would be far more functional than on the face of the finger-board.

If I can't see the fingerboard without doing something that feels quite strange, is my techique somehow "different" than "normal"?

[SMILEYSIXX]

I don't know about you, but I can see my fretboard very well while playing and a quick glance will get me on track if I lose my bearings. Without lines, I'd pretty much be screwed

[Mojo-Man]

Most fretless basses have side-dot markers on neck.
I do not like lined fingerboards.
It's the old, play with your ears, not your eyes thing.
All my fretless basses are unlined.

[MusicBear]

I didn't know about fretless basses with lines until I heard about Jaco. My Modulus/Alembic fretless just has side dots. I learned to hear it, and use the dots for quick reference (and never try to sing while playing fretless).

[Billnc]

No lines is fine.

[Deathblade Eric]

I'm with the OP on this one.

Edge lines & dots are really handy, much less so a lined board.

YMMV, natch.

[slybass3000]

Lines are a most on an electric fretless. The 34" scaling is much smaller then on an upright so your chance to be out of tune are greater. Don't fight with this unless you are willing to spend the rest of your life trying to be in-tune. It is already a hell of a job to be in-tune with lines.

[Herbie 80's]

I'm on the line that you should play with your ears, not your eyes.

[René_Julien]

I'm playing fretless (almost exclusively) for about 10 years. I became a bit snobby about preferring unlined fingerboards.

Although I find having one lined fretless bass in my collection handy...

... if I'm to audition for a band, I bring the lined one. It throws them off... guitarists usually don't know that I brought a fretless bass, so they don't whine about it when they see me unpack it. And it's usually heavy rock or metal bands so they don't notice it with their ears either.


The sad thing is... ^^ I'm semi-serious.

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by slybass3000

Lines are a most on an electric fretless. The 34" scaling is much smaller then on an upright so your chance to be out of tune are greater. Don't fight with this unless you are willing to spend the rest of your life trying to be in-tune. It is already a hell of a job to be in-tune with lines.

Cellos have 25" scale and the only ones I've seen with lines are the kids in Suzuki class. Violins are smaller still. You don't need lines, you need practice time. After you get your ears together to hear in tune, all kinds of other sounds in music will be apparent to you. Its a trip worth taking.

On a slightly related idea.... how many of you who ride motorcycles consider these new three wheel things to be your equal on the road?

[kesslari]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

On a slightly related idea.... how many of you who ride motorcycles consider these new three wheel things to be your equal on the road?

Yeah, all those losers who play lined - Gary Willis, the late Jaco - they weren't nearly as good as the TB unlined players!

To the OP - lines are there on most fretless basses because it's easier for manufacturers to take a neck off the fretless assembly line and "not put the frets in" (and fill the fret slots with lines). Not really because it's better or easier.
Though I do find that having lines or treble-edge references in the upper registers (like on fretless F-basses) to be useful.

[Staccato]

Though some may not admit it, they began playing fretless on lined, and graduated to unlined, later.

Question: If you're building fretless basses to sell, will an unlined bass sit in inventory longer than an identical FL bass with lines? If you want to move inventory, this is a consideration. If you're building them for yourself, it's a matter of your mood at the time.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

Cellos have 25" scale and the only ones I've seen with lines are the kids in Suzuki class. Violins are smaller still. You don't need lines, you need practice time. After you get your ears together to hear in tune, all kinds of other sounds in music will be apparent to you. Its a trip worth taking.

On a slightly related idea.... how many of you who ride motorcycles consider these new three wheel things to be your equal on the road?

Three-wheelers? I wave at 'em. They can ride whatever they like. I'm on a Road King, myself.

[Skitch it!]

Recorded this earlier, I'm a big fan of lines, especially playing against another fretless, give me the lines everytime.

YouTube - Paul Simon - Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes Bass.

[fourstringdrums]

Originally Posted by kesslari

it's easier for manufacturers to take a neck off the fretless assembly line and "not put the frets in" (and fill the fret slots with lines).

Wouldn't it technically be easier to make an unlined fretless by stopping before the fret slotting process?

[pi_r_squared]

Really didn't intend to turn this into a "lines vs no lines" battle, but I'm still dumb-founded as to how you can see the actual surface of the fretboard while playing, I can tell where I am by looking, but when I really pay attention to what I'm looking at, it turns out that it's strictly the ends of the frets and not the surface of the fingerboard.

um.....maybe I oughta lose 20 lbs of so, see it changes my...um..."line of sight" to my bass while playing :P

[Skitch it!]

If I can see a partial of the line I view it like a pointer and try and locate in paralleling, kind of completing an imaginary line to the lower radius of the neck. If it's something very tricky to intonate then I do view a little more forward. It's a lot of everything I've found, muscle memory, pitching, even though the fretless I use isn't that good I keep with it because of the scale familiarity after 20 years, but intonation is a constant adjustment nevertheless, especially if you like a drink or two

[Kael]

I have never had any problems seeing the fingerboard on any bass I have ever played.

[elgecko]

My NS EUB has dots on the fingerboard that are not visible (i.e. useless) as I play. I installed "spackle" side dots and I'm much happier now.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Kael

I have never had any problems seeing the fingerboard on any bass I have ever played.

I can see the fingerboard, it's the lines that are all blurry! That fact makes unlined more pleasant to play. If I've got to wear reading glasses on the gig it doesn't matter.