Fretless Practice Techniques

jtallent · #1 11-19-2007, 12:06 AM

Hi all ... quick question about fretless technique and practicing. I just bought my first fretless and am waiting for it to arrive. In the meantime, I thought I would see what suggestions anyone has about transitioning from a fretted to fretless. I decided to take the plunge and make it hard for myself by getting an unlined neck but I think I'll be happier with it in the long run.

What I'm particularly interested in, is what tips and tricks others have used to transition effectively and work on staying in tune. About 23 years ago I took some violin lessons where we learned with taped lines on our necks. Has anyone tried this or anything else to help out? Thanks for the advice.

-Justin

bassteban · #2 11-19-2007, 12:16 AM

Play w/a tuner. Also play w/others; it's pretty easy(for me)to sound in tune to myself while actually being quite off-key. Having other(on-key)instruments to sound off of can really help. When you get a bit more comfortable w/it, challenge yourself by playing stuff that's particularly difficult on fretless- I'll work on YYZ for example.

Linkert · #3 11-19-2007, 02:39 AM

you can use a tuner to mark out where the notes are with some tape then practice untill you feel ready to take on the long unmarked neck

Corbow · #4 11-19-2007, 04:35 AM

I bought my first fretless few months ago...and although it was quite difficult to play it for the first time I got use to it in just one month. Fretless should be freetted just right on the place where a fret on the fetted bass is situated. I made some duck-tape marks (use a tuner) on the neck in these positions and started slowly with playing octaves nad fifths. ( let a metronome be your guide) Then I added simple runs and today after 3 months I have no problems with playing on fretless
+ it really makes my fretted playing much easier....

BassChuck · #5 11-19-2007, 08:02 AM

+1 to playing with a tuner and playing with others.

Hand position is going to be far more important with a fretless than fretted. Make sure your octaves and fifths are in tune. One exercise I like to do is to play a major scale, then play the root and fifth together to make sure they are in tune, then play the 3rd and the 7th (this will make the interval of a fifth together and make sure it is in tune, then play the 4th and the octave (this will make an interval of a fifth) together and make sure this is in tune, then play the root and the octave in tune. Keeping these intervals in tune will help with your hand position.

Also, once you have you intonation going pretty well, get your eyes OFF the fingerboard and let your ears tell your fingers where to go.

Good luck.

threshar · #6 11-19-2007, 08:23 AM

The biggest thing is to play along with a cd (until you get your intonation down, then try with real player). You can do all teh scales you want, but if you have no "basis for comparison" you can play off pitch and ahve it sound great. Then you play with people and go "Whoah". This is what I did and it worked out nicely. You'll know immediately if you are off pitch. This of course assumes that you, like most folks (myself included) do not have perfect pitch and know when they are slightly off.

The other which is quite challenging is an exercise michael manring uses - although it requires a looper pedal. Using a fretted bass, play something (a scale, or whathaveyou). Then switch to your fretless and play along. You'll know when you are in tune and when you aren't. It is a great technique for working on complex passages, as you can also slow down, etc. (depending on your pedal)

wiro · #7 11-19-2007, 08:34 AM

It's pretty much like singing exercises where there are no frets either:
Play a scale from bottom to top and back again. As soon as you come back to an open string you can hear instantly if you've gone wrong somewhere somehow. In the beginning this will happen almost every time you try. But after a while you'll notice that you keep track more an more often. It helps if you're doing it slow to be able to correct every tone to your hearing.

Repeat this with all other scales and arpeggio's.

Ric Vice · #8 11-19-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtallent

Hi all ... quick question about fretless technique and practicing. I just bought my first fretless and am waiting for it to arrive. In the meantime, I thought I would see what suggestions anyone has about transitioning from a fretted to fretless. I decided to take the plunge and make it hard for myself by getting an unlined neck but I think I'll be happier with it in the long run.

What I'm particularly interested in, is what tips and tricks others have used to transition effectively and work on staying in tune. About 23 years ago I took some violin lessons where we learned with taped lines on our necks. Has anyone tried this or anything else to help out? Thanks for the advice.

-Justin

Justin,
One of the real problems with playing a fretless EB in tune is something that most DB players kind of take for granted. The fingerboard of a Double Bass isn't "flat", it has a very generous curve that makes it easier to learn and play in tune since it fits the natural curve your left hand. I've never seen a EB builder that takes that into consideration. In my experience it's much easier to play a Double Bass in tune than a Fretless Electric Bass. Fretless EB takes a great deal of practice to master. I'd really reccommend using the section of the Ray Brown Bass Method that deals with intervals. That should help with some of the intonational problems.

Ric

wiro · #9 11-19-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

The fingerboard of a Double Bass isn't "flat", it has a very generous curve that makes it easier to learn and play in tune since it fits the natural curve your left hand. I've never seen a EB builder that takes that into consideration.

There's at least one manufacturer who took this up:
Takamine B10 is the result:

jtallent · #10 11-19-2007, 07:53 PM

Thanks a ton for all of the advice. For some reason I didn't even think about using a tuner to help out with making tape marks, etc.. I'm sure I have some work cut out for me ... but that's one thing (of many) that makes music so rewarding. I can't wait! I also read somewhere to simply play along with a recorded "drone". I guess, simply either record the root on a fretted (or piano, etc.) and practice scales and intervals from there. BTW .. that Takamine is beautiful. I've never seen anything like that. I'm personally not a big acoustic bass fan (unless it's a DB) but that's very nice.

Throckmorten · #11 11-20-2007, 01:24 PM

Pick up a copy of Gary Willis' book 101 Bass tips
http://www.amazon.com/101-Bass-Tips-...5590145&sr=1-8

It's written with the fretless in mind. Lots of good stuff.

TL5 · #12 11-20-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtallent

..suggestions anyone has about transitioning from a fretted to fretless..

What I'm particularly interested in, is what tips and tricks others have used to transition effectively and work on staying in tune.
-Justin

Others have given good suggestions for practice techniques on the fretless.

I would suggest that when you play a fretted bass, work on positioning your fingers just behind the fret instead of playing in the middle of the fret.
Think of placing your finger where it would need to be if there were no frets.

**Mark Wilson** · #13 11-20-2007, 02:10 PM

I agree with what everyone else says, but one CRUCIAL thing is your left hand technique.

If your thumb isn't at the center of the back of the neck, you're not going to get that natural reach.

Also, find the harmonics. 5th, 7th and 12th are the easiest to find.
What you'll come to find with fretless is the harmonics on the 4th, 3rd, and 2 1/2 jump out.

Also, start early and play vibrato. Get a nice natural mwahhh going as early as you can. DON'T OVER USE IT. But, up in the treble area of the bass, a nice, intune note with slight vibrato can send shivers up peoples spines.
Go out and listen to cellists, and violinists and how they use the vibrato technique.

jtallent · #14 11-22-2007, 01:24 PM

I recently picked up Gary Willis' book. There are some nice tips in there ... that's where I read about practicing with a "drone". I can be a little left hand sloppy at times (lazy I guess). That's good advice to work at proper left hand technique and positioning. Thanks again for all of the advice.

ClassicRock55 · #15 11-23-2007, 11:01 PM

Like everyone else says, play with a tuner. Depending on the bass, it should have dots in the neck to mark where some of the 'frets' would be, or drawn in lines indicating fret boundaries. If that is the case, watch your finger placement like a hawk and you'll get it down in no time.

lhoward · #16 11-23-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtallent

I recently picked up Gary Willis' book. There are some nice tips in there ... that's where I read about practicing with a "drone". I can be a little left hand sloppy at times (lazy I guess). That's good advice to work at proper left hand technique and positioning. Thanks again for all of the advice.

You might find this thread on left-hand positioning wrt the lines interesting:
lined fretless,right BEHIND the line or ON the line?

Jim Carr · #17 11-25-2007, 04:29 AM

You can simply draw small marks with a lead pencil. They wear off in a short while, but they can help when practicing.

Also, try "Target Practice." Practice leaping a given interval from a starting place until accurate everytime. Switch the interval and repeat. Do it with different starting points when practical intervals are exhausted from the first starting point. BTW, leaping up and then leaping back covers 2 starting points.

This is a double bass thang.

hunta · #18 11-25-2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by threshar

The biggest thing is to play along with a cd (until you get your intonation down, then try with real player). You can do all teh scales you want, but if you have no "basis for comparison" you can play off pitch and ahve it sound great. Then you play with people and go "Whoah". This is what I did and it worked out nicely. You'll know immediately if you are off pitch. This of course assumes that you, like most folks (myself included) do not have perfect pitch and know when they are slightly off.

+100. The first step in learning fretless intonation is to play with an aural reference. Tape/pencil marks will not really tell you if your intonation is tight, because it's a visual reference and depending on how you roll your fingers on the fretboard (a big part of fretless technique) you can easily be out of tune but it will "look right." I'd recommend starting with a play-along CD (like Aebersold or Jim Snidero books). These aren't really designed to teach you fretless intonation, but they might as well have been. This is how I learned DB intonation and also if I go without playing fretless for a while, I can get out a play-along book and readjust quickly (I use the Anthony Vitti Finger Funk books for this usually).

The most important thing when you start playing fretless with others is to make sure you can hear yourself. On a fretted bass I could play a gig without any bass monitoring and be very close, with fretless forget it.

demented6th · #19 11-26-2007, 04:25 PM

You'll love it so much you won't put it down for a month. By then you'll be so dead in tune, you won't know what you were worrying about!

groove pump · #20 11-26-2007, 06:30 PM

Jammin' on a fretless requires that technique, but the thing that knocked me out when I started with it was how deliberately I had to play every single note. Fretted necks let you get away with following a pattern once you get the root dialed in, but every time you make a move on a fretless neck, you need to be conscious of exactly what's going on and where you are headed next. This is a good thing.

After noodling for the better part of a year on my own, I was at a gig with the third set coming up and said, "Screw it." Out came the fretless - I thought I'd only try it for one or two songs - and I went bananas with it for the whole set. Sang backups, too! My neck is lined and for me that's pretty helpful because I can just glance at it to check where I'm at. Either way, that sound is that sound. Don't be afraid to try it on at a band practice as soon as you get a little familiar with it - you can psyche yourself out a little if you wait too long. Dive in man, it's just a practice.

In my independent practices (goofing around in my room) I got better results with the fretless when I worked with it on its own. It's got its own vibe that I wanted to focus on instead of relating it to my fretted bass. Play whatever you can think of with it. When I play both my basses at home now, I like to start with the fretless for a bit, then swap over to the fretted if it summons me.