Fretless Question: Why do some notes mwah like crazy and others not at all?

[DavePlaysBass]

I just picked up a 5 string fretless SX jazz bass. I am using Sadowsky flats. I just upgraded the bridge to a Schaller roller style.

My obersvations are that I get a lot of uncontrolled mwah at times on the D and G string. And this is without doing any left hand vibrato. Certain notes just seem to swell. Its almost like a fret buzz deal. The lower strings sound nice and punchy and almost no different from a fretted. If I play with less right hand attack and play more on my left hand finger tips, I get less mwah to some degree. Left hand damping can control it as well. However, what if you want to hold a whole note without the mwah going crazy? And sometimes I will play a quick arpegio and one or two notes will just blosom. I like it sometimes but would like to understand how to control it better. It reminds me of an auto wah that is just sweeping asynchronous to the playing.

I have the action set up at "medium" height per the Sadowsky setup article. I have some relief in the neck typical of what I do for fretted basses which may be on the high side. I also think the uncontrolled mwah increased when I switched out bridges. I am almost thinking I should go back to the cheap stock bridge that I could hardly get the strings thru.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Billnc]

I'm no expert, but it's not the bridge. Is it mwah or buzz you are dealing with? Mwah is almost always good (it's why we go fretless) and is usually controllable, more LH pressure less mwah. Buzz is not desirable (or more close to a rattle sound). My FL action and intonation was set up by a luthier (I recommend this, the guy assured me I would find it far easier to play and in tune, he was right). My action is low and fairly straight as far as the neck goes.

Fretless is also more obvious where dead spots are concerned, so notes on either side of a dead spot may have more mwah, this is typical around C# on the 1st string.

My guess is more tweaking on the set up.

[DavePlaysBass]

My setup is right on with your description. And I think you said what I was flirting around with, pressure. When I use my pinky to grab octaves on the D and G I am getting the mwah and that is probably because I am not pressing as hard with the pinky.

I have spent several hours on the bass since the original post. Maybe I am starting to get it. It takes a lot more thought and I do not feel as percise as I do not a fretted. But its cool. Any other suggestions appreciated.

[PiNgtime]

I clicked into here purely to get an explanation of the 'mwah'

[YamahaJamBass]

I totally agree with the set up, however IMo I can't ever get rid of this "growth" . It just moves up and down the fingerboard as the seasons(hum) change. In dry air as the action creeps up higher the wild notes are around F#, B, E, A respectively. As some humidity comes back or I adjust my action back lower, the area just moves up to about G#, C#, F#, and B resp.

IMo I would learn to work around it alittle using some light muting on the left hand, I also do a new set-up after winter or summer sets in to help me keep things consistent.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm used to it.

[NoTalentHack]

Originally Posted by PiNgtime

I clicked into here purely to get an explanation of the 'mwah'

Listen to just one Jaco tune . . .

[Gawd]

As far as I know, the mwah comes from the vibrating string making contact with the wood. the closer the contact, the more mwah.

[fretlessguy]

That's a good question. So let me share my experiances.

1. First, flatwounds do not "mwah" like a set of rounds can. Flats are better for sounding like the thud of an upright. Very little "mwah". They have their purpose, and sound good with folk, some country, Southern Gospel, and more of the traditional sounding music. They can go well with other styles as well. Roundwounds are what you want if you are pursuing mwah.
2. The lighter the gauge the more pronounced the mwah will be. I thought that was a load of excrement until my local guitar luthier/repairman showed me so. By dog he was right, and I currently use a Fender 7150 original Nickels in light gauge with a .125 B I ordered seperately.
3. My strings are set as close to the board as possible without buzzing, and I play with a lighter touch. It helps get the "mwah" sound.
4. Playwith your hand OVER the bass of the neck above the fingerboard, sort of like playing an upright. If you play over the body it sounds more like a fretted bass.
5. When playing with vibrato, play by moving your finger up and down like a cellist would do. If you pull and push your strings up-and-down, it is going to start making those ruts in your fingerboard.

Hope this helped.

FG

[deckard]

Originally Posted by fretlessguy

That's a good question. So let me share my experiances.

1. First, flatwounds do not "mwah" like a set of rounds can. Flats are better for sounding like the thud of an upright. Very little "mwah". They have their purpose, and sound good with folk, some country, Southern Gospel, and more of the traditional sounding music. They can go well with other styles as well. Roundwounds are what you want if you are pursuing mwah.
2. The lighter the gauge the more pronounced the mwah will be. I thought that was a load of excrement until my local guitar luthier/repairman showed me so. By dog he was right, and I currently use a Fender 7150 original Nickels in light gauge with a .125 B I ordered seperately.
3. My strings are set as close to the board as possible without buzzing, and I play with a lighter touch. It helps get the "mwah" sound.
4. Playwith your hand OVER the bass of the neck above the fingerboard, sort of like playing an upright. If you play over the body it sounds more like a fretted bass.
5. When playing with vibrato, play by moving your finger up and down like a cellist would do. If you pull and push your strings up-and-down, it is going to start making those ruts in your fingerboard.

Hope this helped.

FG

Good info here.

Also, using the fat/flat part of the end of the finger (rather than just the very tip) will give you more mwah.

(Just fyi, I play fretless exclusively & use Roto RS66LCs.)

I, too, have my strings as low as possible w/o choking the notes. This means picking lighter and thus turning up, but I found that I get a fatter tone w. more fundamental this way.

I find that max mwah is often a matter of twiddling with the height of each individual bridge/string saddle in very small increments: 1/8 turn of the adjustment screw here, 1/4 turn there, etc., all done over time rather than trying to "get" it all at once.

Also, I like to start with the string a little too low (choking) and adjust UP from there, rather than start with the saddle up & adjust down.

Too, I long ago gave up on perfectly even action that exactly follows the radius of the fingerboard: I want max mwah whether the string heights follow the radius exactly or not.

A virtually flat or very-low-relief neck helps a LOT, too. This part of the "mwah equation" is easier for me than most because my neck has no truss rod.

JMHO