Fretting Hand Cramping Up

Manol · #1 07-01-2006, 09:24 AM

I have a Geddy Lee Jazz with one of those famously thin necks and when ever I am fretting down on the first 4-5 frets constantly my hand starts to cramp up/starts hurting. I have attached a picture how my hand sits on the neck and where the pain is?

Can somebody help me?!

morf · #2 07-01-2006, 09:28 AM

Lower that thumb! Move it sideways slightly to the left, then move it down so your wrist is bent, and the tips of your fingers touch the strings. Practice this way and it soon wont be a problem.

Clay_Bass · #3 07-01-2006, 10:41 AM

Heres how low my thumb is

Razor · #4 07-01-2006, 10:42 AM

Do some stretching with both hands before you play..that always helps me.

lemur821 · #5 07-01-2006, 02:04 PM

Are you putting any pressure at all on the neck with your thumb?

PasdaBeer · #6 07-01-2006, 08:36 PM

play a p bass.............

for someof us, chunkier necks are much easyer to play.

Manol · #7 07-02-2006, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PasdaBeer

play a p bass.............

for someof us, chunkier necks are much easyer to play.

Thank you for all your suggestions.
I will take them into consideration and get back to you all.

I will be buying a P-Bass soon so I will see if it still hurts. I will be really sorry to see this bass go

.

BrandonBass · #8 07-02-2006, 01:05 AM

try the p bass to see if theyre comfortable before u buy, or else u might end up w the same problem.

btw, u should not apply much pressure with ur thumb, try fretting without ur thumb. its a good exercise

SOA_bassist · #9 07-02-2006, 01:23 AM

lol ive got the same problem and i checked out a lot of different positions and took mental notes

i squeeze the neck when my thumb is up high, and i have to or i cant fretat all, after a while my thumb and the space between my thumb and index finger hurt

if i loosen i get no power for fretting

with my thumb low my entire left arm strains and my wrist gets extra sore

with it in the middle my thumb hurts

if i use the fatty part of my thumb on the top, bottom, or middle i have a lot less power, and i have used the middle part so much that it is calloused

i think it is about time i get $25 for a lesson, entire lesson will be on left hand technique for hold the bass to lol

also, when going from index finger to pinky my all of my fingers are low and close to the fretboard, when going from pinky to index my middle finger raises up and hammer-son when i try to use it, if i try to control it i lose all strength in my hand and it strains

also, oddly, my pinky is about 1/4 to 1/2 an inch shorter than it should be...

morf · #10 07-02-2006, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clay_Bass

Heres how low my thumb is

Thats better, but you didnt move it sideways so the muscle is still going to cramp up in that position.

tZer · #11 07-02-2006, 09:19 AM

Get your bass set up!
I can't tell for sure from your pictures, but it looks to me like your action is kind of high. This alone will cause you to have to work harder then you should to play your instrument. If your bass has not had it's action adjusted and intonation set up properly, you should start by having that done. You should also either learn how to keep your action the way you like it yourself or plan on regular visits to the tech to ensure your bass is always in playable condition.

You do need to learn to play with the proper pressure, but learning on a bass that is not properly set up will only teach you how to compensate for the bass' short-comings rather then teaching you good techique.

After you get your action and intonation adjusted here are some exercises to help loosen your grip and improve your 'touch'.

Buzzing Notes Scale - Calibrating your touch
1. Fret a note with your index finger so that the note rings out full and true.
2. Now slowly lighten your index finger to the very point that the note begins to give you fret buzz.
3. Now practice scales with the 'buzzing' notes (all fingers - not just the index) - all the way up and down the neck. Concentrate on making sure every note sounds horrible - buzzing. Don't lighten your picking fingers. This will feel very awkward at first as it is very counter-intuitive for you to purposfully play with such rotten sounding notes. But if you do this your fingers will learn to feel what pressure is just south of too light.
4. Now go back, find the 'buzz point' and press just a little harded to make the buzz go away. Now run your scales at that pressure. That will be the ideal pressure you need to make a good note. Pressing any harder does not improve the note quality, so any additional pressure only adds to the strain you put on your thumb.

That will help you 'calibrate' the amount of pressure you NEED to make good notes. Obviously live playing leads to more 'energetic' playing and things like playing with 'calibrated' pressure is the last thing on your mind. But if you practice offline this way, your touch should lighten up and you will get used to it.

Look Ma, no thumbs!
Another thing I do when I practice my scales, along with the 'buzz the notes' scales, is run my scales with my thumb away from the back of the neck entirely.

It is almost certain that the pain you are experiencing is because you are pressing too hard on your strings.

Clay_Bass · #12 07-02-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morf

Thats better, but you didnt move it sideways so the muscle is still going to cramp up in that position.

Your thumb should be directly inbetween your middle and ring fingers. It might look wierd because I took the picture from a slight angle. I used to take classical guitar lessons before I played bass and those guys are real strict on technique.

morf · #13 07-02-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clay_Bass

Your thumb should be directly inbetween your middle and ring fingers. It might look wierd because I took the picture from a slight angle. I used to take classical guitar lessons before I played bass and those guys are real strict on technique.

Fair enough, but I disagree for this specific case. The first frets are a bother, moving the thumb sideways to play on them isn't such a drag compared to the cramps you get from keeping it perfectly inbetween the middle and ring fingers.

Works well for me that way.

tZer · #14 07-02-2006, 11:47 AM

I am not so sure about the strict definition of where your thumb should be. You should not be holding the neck like a baseball bat, but you also should not necessarily be treating a bass like a classical guitar. Your thumb should be in a 'natural' position opposing your fingers and you should not be needing to press overly hard to get notes to sound off properly.

So having your bass set up so that your action is reasonable and working on your touch (the pressure you need to use to make notes sound off properly) is essential to keeping your hand from hurting.

Focusing on micro-managing your thumb position will lead you to forcing your thumb into potentially less then comfortable places. Your thumb is not there to provide a choking force - it is there to orient and stabilize your fretting hand.

Clay_Bass · #15 07-02-2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tZer

I am not so sure about the strict definition of where your thumb should be. You should not be holding the neck like a baseball bat, but you also should not necessarily be treating a bass like a classical guitar. Your thumb should be in a 'natural' position opposing your fingers and you should not be needing to press overly hard to get notes to sound off properly.

So having your bass set up so that your action is reasonable and working on your touch (the pressure you need to use to make notes sound off properly) is essential to keeping your hand from hurting.

Focusing on micro-managing your thumb position will lead you to forcing your thumb into potentially less then comfortable places. Your thumb is not there to provide a choking force - it is there to orient and stabilize your fretting hand.

I dont really know maybe since I was originally taught guitar like that my hand has adapted to it or something. I never have any left hand or right hand pain partly because of technique and then because I strech out alot before I play.

Side Note to the thread poster: Have you tried doing some streching before you play?

Back on track. I know the bass isnt a classical guitar but alot of my solo playing and even sometimes band work includes chording in which case I find all those classical guitar lessons helped.

Everyone's bodies are different and somethings may work for someone that dont work for others.

tZer · #16 07-02-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clay_Bass

I dont really know maybe since I was originally taught guitar like that my hand has adapted to it or something. I never have any left hand or right hand pain partly because of technique and then because I strech out alot before I play.

Side Note to the thread poster: Have you tried doing some streching before you play?

Back on track. I know the bass isnt a classical guitar but alot of my solo playing and even sometimes band work includes chording in which case I find all those classical guitar lessons helped.

Everyone's bodies are different and somethings may work for someone that dont work for others.

After I posted, I looked at how I hold my bass and realized that is exactly how I do it - the way you described... I just do it without thinking - so I do agree with you. It also turns out that when I practice, I hold my bass a lot like a classical guitar - on my inner thigh, neck up high. So I again, agree that your classical guitar analogy is a good one. I guess I think the direction should be 'put your hand in a comfortable postion where your thumb opposes your fingers naturally'. Which just happes to be between your ring and middle finger.

peace!

morf · #17 07-02-2006, 05:18 PM

Its not a comfortable position for those frets if he gets cramps though, lol...

fretless Bob · #18 07-02-2006, 06:15 PM

i position my left hand very much like Clay's, and i agree that this is proper left hand technique but looking at the orignal posters photo it looks like his hand is very different to clay's and mine, but still i think that lowering the thumb, placing it between your middle and ring finger and stretching the fingers out to one finger per fret will improve your playing and consistency of tone.

i alos think that a set up would help you out as well.

oh and don't you even think about trading that geddy in for a p bass!

Dave

tZer · #19 07-03-2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morf

Its not a comfortable position for those frets if he gets cramps though, lol...

Exactly! LOL - that was why I thought a setup and lighter touch was the order of the day.

Blah, blah, blah... but I ramble...

Prescreption for de-crampifying his left hand:
Lighter touch - better (comfy/non-hyper-extended/natural) thumb position - adjusted action on instrument.

dlloyd · #20 07-03-2006, 06:38 AM

There's some bad advice in this thread.

There's nothing wrong with the placement of your thumb IMHO. The pain you're experiencing comes from gripping the neck too tightly.

There's a number of reasons you might be doing this, the most likely being that you're over-compensating for hit-or-miss finger placement. If you hold the string down too far from the fret you get nasty buzzes, which you may be (unconciously) adapting to by holding the string down tighter.