Fretting Hand Cramping Up

[tZer]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

There's some bad advice in this thread.

There's nothing wrong with the placement of your thumb IMHO. The pain you're experiencing comes from gripping the neck too tightly.

There's a number of reasons you might be doing this, the most likely being that you're over-compensating for hit-or-miss finger placement. If you hold the string down too far from the fret you get nasty buzzes, which you may be (unconciously) adapting to by holding the string down tighter.

On the contrary, there is plenty of useful advice in this thread. What you describe as his possible over-compensation for finger placement and his subsequent 'gripping' is certainly a possibly explanation for his pain. I am guessing that you are assuming he has a 'hit or miss' condition by the placement of his fingers in the static photo. However, I don't know how you can determine that without actually seeing or having him describe how he plays.

But it is pretty clear that the action on his bass is pretty high. So I think it would be reasonable to assume a setup and subsequent lighter touch would go a long way toward alleviating his cramping.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by tZer

On the contrary, there is plenty of useful advice in this thread. What you describe as his possible over-compensation for finger placement and his subsequent 'gripping' is certainly a possibly explanation for his pain. I am guessing that you are assuming he has a 'hit or miss' condition by the placement of his fingers in the static photo. However, I don't know how you can determine that without actually seeing or having him describe how he plays.

You can't determine that without seeing him play, but it is an likely scenario, particularly given that he is experiencing it most at the lower frets. I put it forward as a possibility rather than a diagnosis.

The bad advice I was referring to relates to him changing the position of his thumb, bringing it below the center line of the neck and moving it away from its natural postion, parallel with the second finger. That, and changing his bass to solve a technique based problem.

But it is pretty clear that the action on his bass is pretty high. So I think it would be reasonable to assume a setup and subsequent lighter touch would go a long way toward alleviating his cramping.

I'm not sure it is clear that his action is high. I think the apparent height of the string is caused by perspective. He should get it checked out though, I agree.

One thing is certain... cramping of the hand in that position is caused by exerting too much pressure.

Adam Nitti has some excellent advice on his webpage about correct left hand technique that was originally published in Bass Player...

http://www.adamnitti.com/bass_player_03.shtml

[tZer]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

You can't determine that without seeing him play, but it is an likely scenario, particularly given that he is experiencing it most at the lower frets. I put it forward as a possibility rather than a diagnosis.

The bad advice I was referring to relates to him changing the position of his thumb, bringing it below the center line of the neck and moving it away from its natural postion, parallel with the second finger. That, and changing his bass to solve a technique based problem.



I'm not sure it is clear that his action is high. I think the apparent height of the string is caused by perspective. He should get it checked out though, I agree.

One thing is certain... cramping of the hand in that position is caused by exerting too much pressure.

Adam Nitti has some excellent advice on his webpage about correct left hand technique that was originally published in Bass Player...

http://www.adamnitti.com/bass_player_03.shtml

Agreed. I get where you are coming from now. Good calls.

[morf]

Cramping of the hand could simply come from the neck being too thin for his big hands and the position being unatural causing the muscle to flex by itself in that position. Dont diss advice before you've thought about it.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by morf

Cramping of the hand could simply come from the neck being too thin for his big hands and the position being unatural causing the muscle to flex by itself in that position. Dont diss advice before you've thought about it.

I've thought about it.

Morf, I know your intentions are positive, but (with all due respect) do you really think you should be giving technical advice, being a beginner?

[morf]

This is advice I've gotten from a gigging professional... So yes in this particular case, I can pass on advice given to me before.

Besides, I may be a beginner but this is a pretty common problem which doesn't start after you've been playing for 10 years.

Anyway, moving the thumb slightly to the side will not kill your intonation if you keep it below the center line. Your fingertips will still be able to easily fret the strings, and you can recenter the thumb when you move down the neck. It works perfectly well for me and my tone stays intact, which is why I gave him the advice in the first place, having had the same problem myself.

[Phil Smith]

All you ever wanted to know about muscle cramps but were afraid to ask:

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/l...ies/a/leg8.htm

Lightening your grip and bending your thumb will help in addition to raising your overall fitness level.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by morf

This is advice I've gotten from a gigging professional... So yes in this particular case, I can pass on advice given to me before.

Having a deficiency in your own technique corrected in one of the half dozen lessons you've had does not qualify you to look for faults in the playing of others.

In this case, the cramping experienced by the original poster has an obvious cause. He's gripping too hard, despite having a good hand position. There should be little to no tension in the thumb, it should be relaxed and used mainly for balancing the hand on the neck. You should be able to play almost as well with your thumb removed from the back of the neck. The fact that he's getting cramp indicates he's exerting a lot of unnecessary pressure.

Besides, I may be a beginner but this is a pretty common problem which doesn't start after you've been playing for 10 years.

That's just it though. You've been playing for only a few months but feel that you're able to comment on how common a particular problem is, and to prescribe a remedy without understanding what the problem is.

[morf]

And for all I know you've been playing 15 years with bad technique. If what i told him helps him, good. If it doesnt, he wont do it, end of story.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by morf

And for all I know you've been playing 15 years with bad technique. If what i told him helps him, good. If it doesnt, he wont do it, end of story.

The trouble with that reasoning is that you're not necessarily just wasting someone's time with unproductive advice like you did in the reggae thread. When someone is experiencing pain through their playing, bad advice can lead to the problem being compounded and result in permanent damage.

If you don't understand something, sometimes it's best to just shut up.

[morf]

Oh yeah, I wasted the 10 seconds it took him to pick up the bass and try it out

I doubt that if it keeps hurting him trying what I told him, he'll keep up with it and have any permanent damage, actually, i dont doubt it, its ridiculous to even think that, and it certainly shows how much good you think of the people around here.

One more thing, if you want to be offensive and tell others to shut up, you dont belong posting on a public forum, no matter how good you think the advice you give may be.

To the OP: Good luck with your problem, seems to me like you'll need it.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by morf

I doubt that if it keeps hurting him trying what I told him, he'll keep up with it and have any permanent damage, actually, i dont doubt it, its ridiculous to even think that, and it certainly shows how much good you think of the people around here.

I've seen it happen and I know people who have had to give up playing for good because they've damaged their hands playing. There's plenty of people who subscribe to the "no pain, no gain" school of thought.

One more thing, if you want to be offensive and tell others to shut up, you dont belong posting on a public forum, no matter how good you think the advice you give may be.

Morf, calm down with the aggressive posting. Your English is extremely good, but you misunderstand from time to time... "shut up" in this context is not offensive.

[morf]

I didnt tell him to keep forcing, just move his thumb sideways so he wouldnt have to force so much, I just dont see how he could damage his hand doing that... Sounds to me you're just arguing for arguing's sake.

My post wasn't aggressive in the least, and I dont see how my english being good is relevant to the subject at hand... Telling someone to shut up, in any context, is rude. you told me what you thought of my advice, thats fair, but acting high and mighty by telling me it would be better if I shut up instead of giving him advice which, in all honesty, has helped me out (and without damaging my hand, how about that), with the reason "you dont understand what the problem is here" is just preposterous. Yes, his cramping may indeed come from him forcing too much, and yes, moving his thumb sideways slightly would have him force much LESS. Try it.

[dlloyd]

PM sent your way Morf.

I'm done here.

[morf]

PM replied to

[Pacman]

We're done here. Folks, if you're looking for advice here on TB, it's a good idea to look at profiles of those giving it. It'll will give you a clue as to the experience of members here.