Fretting hand techniques

[u84six]

Hi,
I've been playing bass for a really long time, but I've developed a lot of bad habits with my fretting hand which causes me to struggle with some songs. Can someone point me to some good online material and/or books about improving your fretting hand and so that I'm not struggling as much with songs that are all over the fretboard?

Thanks

[Lo-E]

There's some good, free instructional material on studybass.com.

[fearceol]

This first link is really noobie stuff, but maybe you need to go back to basics to unlearn some of the bad habits you have picked up. The part about pivoting the thumb, is especially important.

YouTube - Beginner Bass Guitar Lesson: Left Hand Technique



This link deals with safe fretting technique :

YouTube - Developing Safe Left Hand Technique for Bass Guitar

[Fergie Fulton]

Let me start by saying no one fretting position is wrong and no one fretting position is correct...why?

Because the variables and functions are different to each person, as are the desired results. In many walks of life theren are those that use their hands in different ways in the same tasks, with very different parameters, while trying to acheive the same results...playing bass guitar is no different.

Let me give two examples of people who depend on great hand work to earn a living, tennis players and golfers, each set of sportsman desire the same thing but have the ability and choices to develop what works for them.

A golfer has three basic holds to work with, a baseball grip, an overlapping grip (sometimes refered to as a Vardon grip) and an interlocking grip. Within these holds are variations of wrist angle, thumb positions, finger interaction and so on. The reason for this is each person has different size hands, and can have different size grips to help them make the most of this....custom fitting is a word any good pro golfer is used to hearing. A golfer can change the thickness of the rubber grip (and in some cases the material) to suit his hands,or the grip he wishes to use. It is a blend of function and body mechanics, that is his ability to handle the truth of the situation.
That truth for him is the acceptance of what he wants cannot happen, so he gives himself the best chance to make it happen better than those around him or those that came before.

So like a bass player there are many different hand sizes and many different neck thicknesses, but the average bass player does not take the custom fitting route, he buys from the shelve with out any real thought for how he will cope with it. he develops a technique to handle the instrument, not one best for what he wants to play. Like the pro golfer a neck can be shimmed or altered to suit a persons hands, or even a new neck fitted that is better suited to the persons hands.

The pro tennis player is the same, at least half a dozen ways to hold the racket to choose from, and again the same option to custom fit to suit the player. Again hand size and ability will come in to it. What the golfer and the tennis player share is the knowledge that changing their hand position can change the shape of a shot by making it easier to influence the racket head...not for them is this idea that the hold on the racket must remain the same at all times. They alter the hands to suit the situation, as should bass players. let the reality of your situation be the guiding force in your hand techniques. Let your hands alter to suit the playing situation, even if it is for a moment or two, then change back.

Even the slightest change to a wrist or a thumb can bring great benifits to players that have struggled on through the years without realizing that what they have been doing has not been for them. They see or hear how another players use or used this method and they seek to copy it.
But they do not have that players hands or instrument so the results will never be the same.

In some of the links posted you will find great info but how does it apply to you........that is the real understanding?

Like never let your thumb come over the top, great advice but to who does it apply to?
Look on youtube and you will see that from Jack Bruce to Stanley Clarke this notion is routinley ignored and i would not dispute it with them that they are wrong......because it clearly works.

YouTube - Stanley Clark e George Duke "schooldays"

YouTube - white room-cream(bass solo 08 jack bruce)

Notice on Jacks fretting hand how his hand changes positons to support what what he is playing, rather than being about a single technique, his hand is adapting to what he is doing, as does Stanleys in those examples.

Changes in the hands, even slight ones can bring dramatic results, as can altering the height of the instrument, and changing the position in which the instument is played. Play the instrument in front of you, to the side of you, have the neck more vertical than horizontal or vice verca, play it low play it hight etc but adapt to the situation for which you play and how you want to play.
The idea is to allow the fingers freedom, not about holding or adopting any set position. If you do that then the function has changed from the fingers playing, to being one of a playing position.

As a golf or tennis pro will tell you finding the correct one for you will pay dividends as the correct one for you is a blend of the many things all working as one, not one to make many things happen.
And again like them if you lose the feel and idea of why you do what you do and get wrapped up in the technique and mechanics of what and why you do it, you move away from what it is ultimately about which is playing music, and start to concentrate on function.

The music will create the neccessity for function, that is the way forward. When it works the otherway the substance is not there because it is finding music to suit a function/technique..take away the technique and you have nothing.
Rock bassist Cliff Williams perfoms his duties to the fullest extent of what is required, not the fullest extent of his abilites, so that works perfect.

Hadrien Feaud ( any of the great players really) when he worked for John McLaughlin perfoms his duties to the fullest extent of what is required, not the fullest extent of his abilites, so that works perfect.
Swap them around and apply what works for AC/DC to McLaughlin and vice versa and it does not. Again it is about a bend of music, function and ability in the right situation.



That brings me back to the hands....your hands.....any bodies hands. They have to be what is right for you, for your music and your ability as of now. Not what you had in the past or seek to have in the future, but now. Give youself the best chance to succeed by doing what is best for you and allow it to develop.....you might surprise yourself with what little changes from the "accepted norm can do"....teacher or instructor involved or not

[fearceol]

Great post as usual Fergie, but how is a person supposed to know that what works for them now, is not going to cause problems at a later time ? For instance, resting the thumb on the pick up. A lot of people do it and have no problems, while others, though it works for them at present, develop all kinds of problems later on, as a result of doing this.

I always find this a weakness in the "whatever works for you" line of reasoning, though basically, I admit that I agree with it.

[Jason P Bass]

Originally Posted by u84six

Hi,
I've been playing bass for a really long time, but I've developed a lot of bad habits with my fretting hand which causes me to struggle with some songs. Can someone point me to some good online material and/or books about improving your fretting hand and so that I'm not struggling as much with songs that are all over the fretboard?

Thanks

Can you be more specific about what these bad habits are?

[Skitch it!]

Originally Posted by Jason P Bass

Can you be more specific about what these bad habits are?

I was thinking the same,

"Improving your fretting hand and so that I'm not struggling as much with songs that are all over the fretboard?"

By that I would imagine it's about choosing the most efficient hand positions for what your playing rather than technique?

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Great post as usual Fergie, but how is a person supposed to know that what works for them now, is not going to cause problems at a later time ? For instance, resting the thumb on the pick up. A lot of people do it and have no problems, while others, though it works for them at present, develop all kinds of problems later on, as a result of doing this.

I always find this a weakness in the "whatever works for you" line of reasoning, though basically, I admit that I agree with it.

There in lies the problem with any advice, "how do i know what is good for me?". Its in the psyche of the player justifying what they do.
We start with the premise of what is standard and works for best for the majority, that is what is considered correct, it has experience and a certain quality about it.
If that works then everything is OK, if it does not then adjust to the correct as is seen fit. That means slight changes in one or more areas, not radical ones.
Because of bodies change with age, illness or injury, so must or approach to playing change. We must be aware of any warnings or signals from our bodies that something is not right, or something has the potential to harm us if continued in this way.

The "whatever works for you" approach is justified by the results of the user and the "proof is in the pudding" reasoning.
This is the psyche of a player, and that is a different subject altogether.

A musicians psyche can justify many things as a means to an end because the "now" effects are not an issue on future ones.
Its like starting a fight a Gorilla, the fight is not over when you get tired..... its over when the gorilla gets tired, and if that had occured to you...you might not have been to quick to start the fight

[u84six]

Originally Posted by Skitch it!

I was thinking the same,

"Improving your fretting hand and so that I'm not struggling as much with songs that are all over the fretboard?"

By that I would imagine it's about choosing the most efficient hand positions for what your playing rather than technique?

It's not just about choosing the most efficient hand position, but also about fingering when plying riffs against the chords of a song. Sure, I can do all those walking exercises (e.g. 1-2-3-4, 1-3-2-4, etc) up and down the strings, but that doesn't help me with choosing the right hand positioning and fingering when I'm playing to a song doing bass riffs. I'm always finding myself changing up when I do a riff because I'm not sure what the correct fingering should be. For example, if I'm playing against a D Major chord and I want to do a riff starting from the 5th fret using some of the notes in chord. I tend to struggle when doing simple runs like root/octave/5th back to root, then 5th, then octave. What I currently do is probably what most people do, and use first finger for root, 3rd finger for 5th, and pinky for octave. My problem is that I don't get smoothness when doing the riffs. I struggle with dropping down from hight to low notes in a different way with the problem I have when I go from low to high notes. It's things like that. Or when I do a basic blues riff by just hitting the root, the the flat 7, hammering and/or pulling of then walking down. I know it's hard to describe, but it's those types of things that I struggle with. I mean, I play them well enough, it's just not fluid. And after 20+ years of playing, I shouldn't be struggling with playing sweet sounding bass runs.

[u84six]

Thanks for all the input. I appreciate the time you all spent.

I really liked what this guy had to say about safe positioning:

YouTube - havic5's Channel


He makes a lot of sense, and I actually do more what he suggests rather than what a lot of other people are suggesting.

I never believed in the "one finger per fret" because it definitely makes no sense to do that down in the lower register.

[Skitch it!]

Originally Posted by u84six

I never believed in the "one finger per fret" because it definitely makes no sense to do that down in the lower register.

I'd agree with that, I use 4 fingers for three fret's in a lot of low register lines, it's a lot more comfortable for certain stuff, but other stuff does require 1 finger per fret to play it. I try and look for the most fluid and comfortable way around stuff, that doesn't mean it's alway's 'technically' correct, but the best flow.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by u84six

It's not just about choosing the most efficient hand position, but also about fingering when plying riffs against the chords of a song. Sure, I can do all those walking exercises (e.g. 1-2-3-4, 1-3-2-4, etc) up and down the strings, but that doesn't help me with choosing the right hand positioning and fingering when I'm playing to a song doing bass riffs. I'm always finding myself changing up when I do a riff because I'm not sure what the correct fingering should be. For example, if I'm playing against a D Major chord and I want to do a riff starting from the 5th fret using some of the notes in chord. I tend to struggle when doing simple runs like root/octave/5th back to root, then 5th, then octave. What I currently do is probably what most people do, and use first finger for root, 3rd finger for 5th, and pinky for octave. My problem is that I don't get smoothness when doing the riffs. I struggle with dropping down from hight to low notes in a different way with the problem I have when I go from low to high notes. It's things like that. Or when I do a basic blues riff by just hitting the root, the the flat 7, hammering and/or pulling of then walking down. I know it's hard to describe, but it's those types of things that I struggle with. I mean, I play them well enough, it's just not fluid. And after 20+ years of playing, I shouldn't be struggling with playing sweet sounding bass runs.

It sound like to me that its in-decision over any lack of technique. How do you know it is your fretting hand? Thats where you see the problem, but neccessarly where the root is.

If you are un-sure in your head then you will be un-sure in the hands, you do what you think, unless it is a reflex.

Your fingering options you say are limiting you in smoothness, so increase your fingering options.
e.g.
Patterns can be used to learn and reinforce ideas, but also if left un-checked they become problems....like a relex.
On the E string, 5th fret play an A maj scale starting on the middle finger. Easiest way to do this is to not move the hand and let the finger play the scale over 3 strings (E-A-D).

Because when a bass is tuned in 4ths, and we have the use of 4 fingers if we choose to use them, notes of the chromatic scale are just one fret movement away to the left or the right on any string.

Now play that same A maj scale starting on the little finger, and you will find that if you can play it smooth over 4 strings (E-A-D-G) but the hand needs to move one fret to allow access to the G string when used.

Same scale but start on the index finger, and again it will be over 3 strings (E-A-D) but the little finger will stretch to play the C# on the E-string and the F# on the A string. Again it is following what is smoothest, due to lack of/or minimal hand movement...the finger do the work, the hand mearly positions them to do so. Again all fingers are used.

Same scale but over just the one string.....you get the idea i think. Increase your options by playing notes, not scales as patterns but as notes. Once you have the best option to play, then make it a pattern and make it a reflex. When you move into the area of G maj, open strings now become an option to consider. They have been through out all this post you can use the open string options for all the exercises i mentioned in A maj.
I used A maj as an example, but start above the 7th fret till your hands get used to the stretches and your head gets around the idea of not having open string options.

[miltslackford]

I think this is a helpful article:

Left Hand Technique | Guitar Lessons Bristol

[u84six]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

It sound like to me that its in-decision over any lack of technique. How do you know it is your fretting hand? Thats where you see the problem, but neccessarly where the root is.

If you are un-sure in your head then you will be un-sure in the hands, you do what you think, unless it is a reflex.

Your fingering options you say are limiting you in smoothness, so increase your fingering options.
e.g.
Patterns can be used to learn and reinforce ideas, but also if left un-checked they become problems....like a relex.
On the E string, 5th fret play an A maj scale starting on the middle finger. Easiest way to do this is to not move the hand and let the finger play the scale over 3 strings (E-A-D).

Because when a bass is tuned in 4ths, and we have the use of 4 fingers if we choose to use them, notes of the chromatic scale are just one fret movement away to the left or the right on any string.

Now play that same A maj scale starting on the little finger, and you will find that if you can play it smooth over 4 strings (E-A-D-G) but the hand needs to move one fret to allow access to the G string when used.

Same scale but start on the index finger, and again it will be over 3 strings (E-A-D) but the little finger will stretch to play the C# on the E-string and the F# on the A string. Again it is following what is smoothest, due to lack of/or minimal hand movement...the finger do the work, the hand mearly positions them to do so. Again all fingers are used.

Same scale but over just the one string.....you get the idea i think. Increase your options by playing notes, not scales as patterns but as notes. Once you have the best option to play, then make it a pattern and make it a reflex. When you move into the area of G maj, open strings now become an option to consider. They have been through out all this post you can use the open string options for all the exercises i mentioned in A maj.
I used A maj as an example, but start above the 7th fret till your hands get used to the stretches and your head gets around the idea of not having open string options.

Yes, Fergie, it is mostly being indecisive. When something doesn't feel comfortable, I tend to try other ways. That's my problem. Sometimes I approach the same riff in a few different ways depending on the the chords around it. I watch other bass players and they make it looks so easy; like they're barely straining, and easily shifting up and down the neck just a half step or so to get all their fills in. I find myself going all over the place. I think my main weakness is know all the notes on the fretboard and mapping them to patterns that are related to the riff I'm trying to do. I suppose doing more "knowing the fretboard" exercises is one way to get better. But then again, my hand positioning and fingering needs to match that of some bass players I see.

Here's a good example of a tricky bass line done with ease:
YouTube - Darling Dear - Jackson Five - James Jamerson bass line cover (transcription & tab provided)

I need to get more like that.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by u84six

Yes, Fergie, it is mostly being indecisive. When something doesn't feel comfortable, I tend to try other ways. That's my problem. Sometimes I approach the same riff in a few different ways depending on the the chords around it. I watch other bass players and they make it looks so easy; like they're barely straining, and easily shifting up and down the neck just a half step or so to get all their fills in. I find myself going all over the place. I think my main weakness is know all the notes on the fretboard and mapping them to patterns that are related to the riff I'm trying to do. I suppose doing more "knowing the fretboard" exercises is one way to get better. But then again, my hand positioning and fingering needs to match that of some bass players I see.

Here's a good example of a tricky bass line done with ease:
YouTube - Darling Dear - Jackson Five - James Jamerson bass line cover (transcription & tab provided)

I need to get more like that.

If that is the case, then work on the options of notes to choose rather than patterns. In the few A maj. examples i gave you previous, you can make at least 10 different fingering options by mixing up the notes played across the strings to play that scale. Rememer all music travels forward and cannot wait for any catch up..if you miss a beat/note it's gone...you cannot go back to it or worry about it, you must stay focused on what's to come. With that the options on hand positions is always to allow the fingers to cope with what is coming, take care of that and everything else will be behind you, gone in the moment of music, never to be an issue.....unless you falter, pause, halt or make it one.

I think you jusy need confidence to commit to your options and playing the best ones for you, not to match those of others.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by u84six

Here's a good example of a tricky bass line done with ease:
YouTube - Darling Dear - Jackson Five - James Jamerson bass line cover (transcription & tab provided)

That guy is obviously a real Jamerson fan. Notice how he plucks with one finger. I have never seen anyone else do that.