Getting back into playing after a long hiatus...

[zaubertuba]

Sorry for my first post on here being so long, but my question requires a bit of background.

I played (and majored) in String Bass, Electric Bass, & Tuba back when I was in college. Did a lot of playing and gigging, and really enjoyed it, but eventually overdid it and got tenosynovitis, and had to give up the bass.

After over 15 years away from the instrument, I ended up helping out a worship team at our church periodically, using a graciously loaned (but not-in-the-greatest condition) electric bass from the worship leader.

I've been looking for a way to make my playing as ergonomic as possible, investigating stick basses and other ways to put as little stress as possible on my aging fingers. Today, a Keyboardist friend of mine (who was also a fellow Music Major with me) loaned me his bass-bottom Megatar. He bought it to play around with, but since hasn't really had time to get into it. It has a standard 6-string bass complement as well as another 6 right-hand "melody" strings tuned in forths.

I know it's not "uber-top-of-the-line," but it seems quite a well-crafted and lovely instrument, and the playing position and action seem to be what I've been looking for all along. String spacing is a little tight, but I could still play bass lines using a "traditional" technique (not tapping, which is what it seems to have been designed for) as soon as I picked it up--and with amazingly little effort. The bass strings are actually closer to the left/bottom side of the neck, so the low "B" is actually the 7th string from the bottom. This seems counterintuitive, but it was configured this way so a "tapper " wouldn't have to cross hands to play in all areas of the instrument. For me, it seems easier because my left hand doesn't have to cross the wide neck to fret the heavier bass strings--my fingers are well-curved this way.

I tried out the Mobius' recommended tapping technique, and noticed the extra effort required to sound the strings with just my left hand increased my fatigue level rapidly, however. Tapping with my right hand on the "melody side" of the instrument seemed quite a bit easier.

My question is, considering the fatigue level, I'm not sure I really should tap with my left hand, at least for most of my playing (usually worship gigs, though my friend wants to get a jazz trio together--the loan was not without an ulterior motive, I think ). But the instrument is so effortlessly playable with even standard technique I have a sense I could do quite a bit on the bottom side of it--and not re-injure myself in the process. I will admit I am interested in learning some tapping/playing on the "high-side" of the instrument, too.

When I played before, my String Bass technique spilled into my electric technique, so I tend to finger 1-2-4, which mimimizes shifting on the electric and seems the most efficient approach for me. The Mobius technique seems to adamently favor fingering 1-2-3. Would it be considered "bad form" to get acquainted with this instrument using my traditional technique, save for the high strings? In this sense i would be using it as much more of a "hybrid" support instrument than as a soloist instrument.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

[wvbass]

I haven't believed in bad technique for years. When I was a teen, I met a guy who did everything "wrong." He slapped, he tapped, he played "normal" lines, but he did it all wrong. But he was an artist, and his creative genius meant he could play circles around me. (As a side bar, there's a little lesson here: he couldn't turn the genius off, and I ended up with his gig, because I am an ensemble player and play to support the song.)

Since this is the bass thread, I can share a little bit of my experience bass-wise. When I switched to a five string, I was using a Fender Jazz V. This was fine for some time, but eventually, I developed problems with pain in my left wrist and hand. I tried a few other fivers, but eventually had to use a four string jazz bass. The size of the neck of a five string was really contributing to the pain.

Now, I've always been interested in innovation. When the Steinbergers came out, I couldn't afford one so I got a Washburn copy. Later, I played a Kubicki. Thanks to TB, I discovered Dingwall. The fanned frets made more sense ergonomically. So, sight unseen, I bough one from Bass Central. Sure enough, I can play my Dingwall as long as I want with no problems with pain.

The other thing I've learned? This is a MAN's instrument. (Sorry ladies!) What I mean by that is, if you're a bass player, you have to approach it like being an athlete. Muscle toning and physical conditioning are key to avoiding injury.

About a decade ago, I had surgery on my left hand for a repetitive-stress injury. In my opinion, this wasn't from playing bass, but from typing on a computer at my day job. (I swore then I'd quit my day job if it was going to end my ability to play bass.) It took me quite a bit of rehab to recover from that. One of the key things I did was use one of those red grip-master things to build finger strength - I highly recommend them. After all the physical rehab work, I was in the best physical playing shape I have ever been.

Since then, I've watched several people at work go through various keyboard-related, repetitive stress injuries. All of them had at least one thing in common. They got zero exercise to condition the muscles that they use while typing. I think that exercising these muscles is critical to avoiding injury.

Now, I'm not a kid any more, and I'm starting to get to the age where I wake up and parts of me hurt for no reason. Joints just starting to wear out as I get older. I'm trying to make decisions to take this into account. The Dingwall lets me play a five string again. My main four is a Lakland because it is some comfortable to me - and because of Lakland quality I can set the action where I want it without buzzes, etc.

Shop around, search online. Find a bass that is comfortable to you. One with enough build quality that it can be set up like you want and need. You can't be too picky price-wise though - You may find what you need in a $200 instrument, but it may also be a $2000 instrument that meets your needs.

Once you've got the right bass, don't forget about physical conditioning. (I squeeze tennis balls and use dumbbells these days.) Treat this like a sport, and you shouldn't have to shy away from any technique. And don't ignore pain - its a warning sign.

[unclejane]

I'd suggest only not doing what you did before to cause the injuries.

Last couple weeks, I've officially declared to myself my professional/gigging career as being over for similar reasons. I've discovered my left wrist and hand are no longer able to take the pounding of extended playing.

In my case, it was years of playing poorly balanced basses and using a technique that forced too much bend in my wrist. Even with those techniques corrected I still can't play for an extended period of time without pain and reinjury. So the "gig" is up for me (so to speak).

I have gone to a 1-2-4 technique when playing down in half position which mitigates problems at least temporarily, long enough that I should still be able to at least have a recording career for the remainder of my time.

As for strength needed, I'd do what is necessary to reduce that as much as possible. In my case, I switched to fretless some years ago which allows a very very low action. Also, I use low tension strings (TI jazz flats) which helps out as well.

So in my case, the bent-wrist technique with the left hand ended my career early (age 45). This isn't the case with everyone, tho, so I can only offer this as a suggestion for something to look at.

But like I said, for sure stop doing what you _were_ doing and do something else....

LS

[zaubertuba]

MODS - Sorry this thread ended up being more about technique than instruments--please move if you feel it necessary.

Wow! Thanks for the thoughtful comments, guys!

Originally Posted by wvbass

About a decade ago, I had surgery on my left hand for a repetitive-stress injury. In my opinion, this wasn't from playing bass, but from typing on a computer at my day job. (I swore then I'd quit my day job if it was going to end my ability to play bass.) It took me quite a bit of rehab to recover from that. One of the key things I did was use one of those red grip-master things to build finger strength - I highly recommend them. After all the physical rehab work, I was in the best physical playing shape I have ever been.

Originally Posted by unclejane

I'd suggest only not doing what you did before to cause the injuries.

When I injured myself (and it was diagnosed as a form of RSI), I was doing far too much playing with an extremely tense technique on a not-very-well-set-up double-bass. I never allowed myself to fully heal before trying strength-conditioning, and so as a result, by the time I dropped in to the Virginia Mason Clinic, the Doctor there had me press my palms together and move my arms towards and away from me, and I could feel the scar tissue sliding in my tendons.

It got so bad I couldn't turn a door knob.

And, after finally putting the bass down, it took years for me to feel like I really healed.

So I'm definitely walking into this with both eyes wide open. I want to *really* be careful with strength-training, though, because I have a tendency to "work through the pain," and that's what really did in my tendons (actually it was the sheaths the tendons slide in-hence "tenosynovitiss"). I certainly understand the value of it, but when I did it before, I really wasn't ready for it.

As for strength needed, I'd do what is necessary to reduce that as much as possible. In my case, I switched to fretless some years ago which allows a very very low action. Also, I use low tension strings (TI jazz flats) which helps out as well.

Going fretless electric sounds appealing to me. It probably wouldn't take too much for me to get used to the shorter scale. Can't slap on a fretless, though. I may need to swallow my pride and realize I'm not going to be able to work up all those Kim Stone riffs. Not that I practically need to funk it up like that, anyway.

So in my case, the bent-wrist technique with the left hand ended my career early (age 45)

I do hope you're able to convalesce and get back into it--even to a lesser degree, if possible. I'm 40, and I have to say I've really liked picking up the axe again, though I don't think I'll ever put in as many playing hours as I did when I was 20.

[Jim Carr]

You can slap a fretless if you have a final fret installed--even without that, it still is possible (depending on your instrument), just different.

[zaubertuba]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful responses.

Thought I'd give a little update - Played my first gig with the trio in March, without pain! It was an absolute blast!

I've found the Megatar is rather heavy, though, and has "too many strings." I get lost easily on the 12-string fretboard, so I'm looking at picking up an NS/Stick. It's a tapping instrument like the Megatar but has wider string spacing on the bass end and has a more-manageable 8 strings. It's the result of a collaboration by Ned Steinburger and Emmett Chapman so it has a lot of neat innovations from both of those instrument lines, as well.

The N/S comes in a 1/2 fretless version, which I think will fit very well with the styles I'm playing. I mentioned I thought I could transition from having played upright to the shorter scale, but the last time I played upright was 20 years ago. Anybody else switch from Upright to fretless electric? Any tips on making a smooth transition?