getting started in The Real Book

[Sp3ktral]

this might be a lengthy post..but i'll try to keep it simple.

my bass experience is minimal, i've been playing around...2 weeks now?
but i've been playing guitar for 12+ years. so i have a music background and understand basic to intermediate theory.

I finally convinced myself that I should purchase a real book and learn to walk like the basslines I really love to hear...but i'm getting a sound nothing like that and I'm stuck.

so that's where you fine folks here at talkbass get to help me out!
where do i start learning to walk and sound like guys like Paul Chambers?

everytime i go to walk it just sounds like i'm playing random notes in a chord. my guess is i'm not using the correct passing tones but i'm just having a hard time figuring all this stuff out.

thanks in advance!!

[Jason Hollar]

Which Real Book did you buy?

Many of the tunes have the composer/artist/album listed for reference...either at the bottom of the page or in an appendix in the back.

I've been building my library of standards for years now by buying CDs I like...preferably ones with tons of standards recorded. I favor trios and quartets so I can hear the bass better. However, there are tons of remarkable big band recordings too -- if that's your thang.

Listen, Listen, Listen...and read along while you listen.

And join the club -- I want to sound like Paul Chambers too! And Ray Brown, and Milt Hinton, and Sam Jones, etc......

Transcribe the lines...memorize the chord changes...check out other versions of the tunes...write your own lines based on the chords & melody. Take lessons, jam with other people, go see live jazz.

Welcome to the trail head of a very serious but rewarding path!

[Sp3ktral]

i bought the sixth edition from Hal Leonard.

i've been building my library of jazz for a while my self, obviously i never feel like i'm getting close to where i want to be haha.

so, listening and reading/playing along from the book is a regular practice?
it seemed to me like a lot of guys only wanted to play from the book...i may attempt to just listen and read along.
unfortunately i'm still learning to read music....

anyway thanks for the help.
anyone else have some insight?

[Sp3ktral]

so, to update on my progress and problems...here i go:

i've been using the lessons on http://www.davemarks.com/lessons.html

and it's helped a little. i better understand inversions now and i know the minor major and dominant 7th shapes for bass use. but to me just playing the chords notes over the progression sounds so....cheesy and ugh it's not that great.

i'm much more into the bop/hard bop sound and those basslines.
so what is it that they are doing different? how can i learn to make those note choices?

i 'm almost feeling like i wasted money on this real book because i can't seem to get anything out of it.

but i suppose this is the frustration of starting a new instrument.

HELLPPPP

[Dave Martin]

Here's a way to look at it - assuming that you're playing some standard tune in 4/4, each note you play should either point to the chord that you're supporting (the notes in the chord), or point to the chord you're going to (that is, leading tones).

[steve66]

Use Chord Tones on beats 1 and 3
Approach an new chord by a half step in ether direction, a whole step, or, a Perfect 5th.

[tbone409]

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Walki...9995676&sr=8-1

great book!

[Sp3ktral]

hmm that seems like as good a resource as any, i might just have to pick that up!

[tbone409]

in the first month i was playing bass before i got a teacher, i taught myself out of that book. i figured i had to walk before i could run sorry...

[SmittyG]

I use the walking lessons DVDs by Todd Johnson (he's in Ask the Pros section of talkbass). Prior to those DVDs, I too would sound like I was just playing random chord tones over the changes. It "fit", but it sure wasn't "smooth". The DVDs gave me a step by step approach to building up an approach to playing the changes. I still have a LONG, LONG way to go, but I am a lot more confident in what I play now.

Another thing was that I started transcribing the bass lines I love. I'm a huge Ron Carter fan so I started with him. After a while, I began to understand his approach to playing over a ii-V-I progression for example. This gave me ideas to try with my own playing. Now I'm on a big Sonny Rollins (sax) kick and getting into a lot of Bob Cranshaw's playing. After I sus out his approach to things, I'll move on to another one. Eventually, the hope is, all of this filters through me and develops into my approach.

[Aaron Saunders]

Originally Posted by Sp3ktral

so, to update on my progress and problems...here i go:

i've been using the lessons on http://www.davemarks.com/lessons.html

and it's helped a little. i better understand inversions now and i know the minor major and dominant 7th shapes for bass use. but to me just playing the chords notes over the progression sounds so....cheesy and ugh it's not that great.

i'm much more into the bop/hard bop sound and those basslines.
so what is it that they are doing different? how can i learn to make those note choices?

i 'm almost feeling like i wasted money on this real book because i can't seem to get anything out of it.

but i suppose this is the frustration of starting a new instrument.

HELLPPPP

Actually, if you're willing to buy a book, I'd look at either the Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid, or the Jazz Bass Line Book by Mike Downes.

Downes is regarded as one of the top bassists in Canada and is head of the bass faculty at Humber College in Toronto, and to be honest, it's one of the only books I've ever seen that's helpful.

One of the things I found really helpful also was that it has transcriptions of blues lines from Pops Foster, Jimmy Blanton, tommy Potter, Leroy Vinnegar, Paul Chambers, Miroslav Vitous, Gary Peacock, and Charlie Haden. Multiple choruses for each -- it's an excellent way to see how the basslines change both by era and by the individual player.

For instance, a lot of Pops Foster's lines are very, very simple and almost 'Nawlins tuba-like, where Charlie Haden's is technically very straight and simple but with a subtly beautiful melodicism. Then dig into Miroslav Vitous' chops-heavy, outside the changes, highly chromatic bassline filled with rhythmic idiosyncrasies.

But yeah...the Jazz Bass Line Book by Mike Downes, available from "Advance Music."

Also, get a real teacher as soon as possible. An experienced teacher is absolutely invaluable if you want to get into jazz.

[Jason Hollar]

Ray Brown and Ron Carter also have bass line books -- as well as several Aebersold editions.

All of these were influencial in helping to solidify my concept -- which is still currently solidifying!

[paintandsk8]

I would say the key is getting books/music with pre-written lines. After you play enough written lines your improv lines will naturally start to mimic them. Listening is great, but it is as much about feeling it as it is hearing it.

[steveksux]

Originally Posted by Sp3ktral

so, listening and reading/playing along from the book is a regular practice?
it seemed to me like a lot of guys only wanted to play from the book...i may attempt to just listen and read along.
unfortunately i'm still learning to read music....?

I find that some basslines that seem to "work" while reading along with the Real Book sound like ass when played alongside the actual chords.

Either play along with a recording, or get something like band in a box to play the chords while you play the basslines. You need to hear the chords and associate the sound of the chords with the basslines you're playing.

Learning to play walking bass without being able to hear the chords you're supposed to be following is like learning to drive without being able to see the lanes you should be following.

You get 10 times the benefit if you associate the sound of the chords to the chord symbols while you're putting a bass line to them as well. Someday you'll be playing with a band and when they play a song they don't have the charts for, you'll actually recognize the chord structure!

Randy

[geoffkhan]

Originally Posted by Sp3ktral

i bought the sixth edition from Hal Leonard.

i've been building my library of jazz for a while my self, obviously i never feel like i'm getting close to where i want to be haha.

so, listening and reading/playing along from the book is a regular practice?
it seemed to me like a lot of guys only wanted to play from the book...i may attempt to just listen and read along.
unfortunately i'm still learning to read music....

anyway thanks for the help.
anyone else have some insight?

Good choice, that real book has a lot of useful tunes. And there were a bunch of corrections from the old fifth version (I own both). You might want to also look into the New Real Books (by Chuck Sher), those have a nice variety of tunes, standards as well as fusion stuff, in them also.

Keep in mind when you're practicing... you're practicing improvising--making do with what you are presented. This is the realm where there are no mistakes, only choices. It might be good to read a book such as Free Play (by Stephen Nachmanovitch) along with your practicing.

Despite your perceived skill level, your own unique voice is invaluable to the world of improvisation (sometimes referred as "jazz" in an extremely broad sense). You are the only one who plays your instrument.

Another great book to look into is The Jazz Musician's Guide to Creative Practicing (by David Berkman). It can be a little piano-centric in parts, but all the exercises (don't worry, the exercises are very musical and easily applied) are useful for any instrument.

More advice I wish I had been given when I was starting out in jazz... find a way to make each song you play (standards, for example) unique and meaningful. Read the lyrics, and think about what the song is expressing. Apply that to your soloing on the song. The melody is a resource from which to draw motives and to refer to during your solos.

Anyway, just a few tips. Generalizations, I realize, but nevertheless hopefully will prove useful in your practice.

[22pauld22]

The Real book can be a great source of all kinds of practice .. if you have some way of recording yourself you can learn the melodies (even jaco wanted us to do that) great for fingering and warmups (its nice to play a melody and helps you learn the tune .. also helps you learn to play melodically for when you solo ..
you can also learn basic chord shapes and therefore have yourself playing the melody the chords and then play along creating your own walking lines .. and by the time you get to writing those walking lines you'll know the melody of the song and all the chord changes off by heart

there is alot to learn even in the easiest standards ... the other tber's have mentioned great books already so i don't need to touch on that but here is a nice aussie site by a great teacher with some really useful stuff

http://www.pnc.com.au/~beehive/home.html

cheers
Paul

[Sp3ktral]

thanks for all the help guys, over the weekend (while picking up my new amp!!) i got the ed friedland book. haven't gotten started in it YET but hope to soon.

thanks again!
Nick

[tkozal]

There is a lot in the Real Book, don't think you have to jump in and start playing freely improvised solo lines over "Very Early"...Years ago, studying jazz with Eric Kloss, he started out simple, and then worked you up, all using the Book (in this case, what I know as the "Berklee Book", now the Hal Leonard book)

go to simple tunes like All Blues, So What (the Miles modal stuff really), Straight no Chaser, and other blues based things, Well you Needn't...Bessie's Blues, maybe things like Blue Bossa. Footprints, Equinox...

Then to the standards like All the Things You Are, Stella, but at this point my old teacher also had me into the bossa tunes (Girl from Imp, How Insensitive, etc)...which developed a life time love...get those ii-V-Is and etc. going...Cherokee, Little Seude Shoes, etc..

Then onto the faster or complex tunes...Very Early (other Bill Evans stuff), La Faro's Gloria's Step, the Metheny tunes, Wayne Shorters stuff (another love) Giant Steps....etc (Mysterious Traveller!!!!)

Eric used to start his sax students out...PLAYING BASS LINES!

The Ron Carter book is good, as are Ed F's books. Years ago I used Rick Lairds book.