Going from Bass Guitar to Upright and Back and Forth

[bass4art]

Hey Guy

I am originally trained as a Upright Bass, and before on Guitar. I know alot of the technique of both. And I have picked up alot on Electric Bass Guitar as well along my playing years especialy over the last 5-6 years playing in Rock and Blues Bands.

This what I found out in my own playing experience for those that would be interested in this. Even though I was trained in the Simandl Method of the left hand position, I have found that using the 1-2-3-4 approach is much more ecletic and easier to remain and keep own intonation and rhythm of a piece either it be jazz, rock or even legit Classical Music.

In this being so using the forum, I have found a school of doube-string bass playing that would fit those that are coming from the Electric Bass background. And that is the American School of Double Bass, by the former principle symphony bassist of the Columbus Symphony in Ohio, Mark Martin now the professor of bass at Texas Tech.

He is really bring back an old system before simandl created the 1-2-4 approach to the Double Bass Playing. Which this system was created when the Upright Bass at the think, tough, leather like strings of the Gut Strings. Which most bassist today have abondon for the Steel strings.

do check out the website of the school at American School of Double Bass

What Mark was and is trying to do is bring the Simandl conecepts of instruction up to this century. And having the method represent the fact that Upright Bass now have Steel Strings not Gut.

Also from talking to him several hours he shares the same attitude I have about being electic and not pigeon holing us within one genre or another.

A Bassist should play all styles of Music, the instrument lets itself to all style of music no matter what it is. For me, one day I can play an Orchestra concert, and the next day be able to play at joint for jazz , blues or rock and roll. It does not matter we all should performed and entertainers of sorts without doing us in because of one style of music.

Now this being the fact. Do check him out. Also for those Electric Bass who wants to do the Upright Bass as well, do take a look at the German Bow verses French Bow. I have found the German was more natural and thus was able to give be the ability to take on the upright bass much more quicker and more focus, but that was my own experience.

So do check him out, and have fun playing both forms of basses both the electric and upright bass.

Kirk

[fdeck]

From that website:

All fingering strategies assume the use of "closed hand” (traditional Simandl 1-2-4) unless otherwise noted.

The uses of 4 fingers in his method are limited to some pretty specific cases.

[So Low Bass]

The “Simandl method” was developed from necessity. The string length of the double bass was and is simply too long to use 1,2,3,4 by professionals 24/7. The electric is a different story….1,2,3,4- one finger one fret- is the way to go…for professionals. To play the Simandl system on electric is a mathematical waste of 25% of fingerpower.

Look at it another way: The electric and cello are roughly the same scale length; there is no such “Simandl system” on cello because there is no need for it.

This is nothing new.

[Reuben]

I think the American School is a lot of hype, personally. It's a mildly systematic approach to something lots of players naturally do, depending on the music, and depending on their needs. Mark is a very good salesman though, and manages to convince a lot of students that they can get something from him not available elsewhere. Four-finger methods are nothing new, and variations on three-finger methods abound. French and German grips each have their advantages and disadvantages and anyone who claims one is superior to the other is trying to sell you something, or they have blinders on. Use what works when it works, and you're doing fine, and that goes for the American School of Double Bass as well.

[So Low Bass]

I agree with all of this- though I know nothing about Mark- except...

A young player with a large hand who opts for 1,2,3,4 on DB might be wondering why he's having major hand problems in his 50s. Old timers have the benefit of experience and collegue's horror stories that a 20 something student doesn't have.

So it's not just a question of "what works" now, but "what works" throughout a career.

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by So Low Bass

The “Simandl method” was developed from necessity. The string length of the double bass was and is simply too long to use 1,2,3,4 by professionals 24/7. The electric is a different story….1,2,3,4- one finger one fret- is the way to go…for professionals. To play the Simandl system on electric is a mathematical waste of 25% of fingerpower.

Look at it another way: The electric and cello are roughly the same scale length; there is no such “Simandl system” on cello because there is no need for it.

This is nothing new.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but there are a number of things wrong with this. Cello's scale length is significantly shorter than electric bass, averaging 27" (references here, and wiki) as compared to a 34" standard bass guitar. This means its roughly comprable to a guitar, where 1-finger-per-fret is the norm. The distance from the bridge to the 5th fret is approximately 25-26 inches (guitar scale length), which is exactly where I recommend my students to begin using 1234. Before that on the neck, I recommend Simandl.

As for "mathematical waste of 25% of fingerpower"... why don't we just pluck with 4 fingers all the time instead of the normal 2? That way we can double how much fingerpower we have in our right hand. Hell, throw the thumb in there too, so we could play with even more fingerpower. If that sounds ridiculous, then you can see why I find thinking in terms of "fingerpower" ridiculous for the left hand. There are very precious few, if any, passages in music, much less music occuring in the bottom register of the bass guitar, which require four fretting fingers in the left hand. If you can find any examples that need all 4 fingers, please let me know and I'll eat my words.

[Pacman]

This is definitely a technique subject, so moved to Technique.