Good scales to learn for metal?

joshpike.sl · #1 11-20-2010, 06:34 PM

im searching into learning new scales and expanding my playing ability. i play in a metal band and need some insight on what scales i should focus on learning to better my band and my abilities. any suggestions on any certain scales to focus on learning and perfecting?

Aaron_D · #2 11-20-2010, 06:36 PM

chromatic

**j-raj** · #3 11-20-2010, 07:10 PM

***moved to technique***

Try to learn all the scales you can. don't rule any out. Ask Ray Riendau In his section of TB.

fourstringburn · #4 11-20-2010, 07:22 PM

I agree you should learn as much as possible. But to answer your question, the most common scales used in metal are the minor scales such as the pentatonic, natural minor scale, and the mixolydian mode. There are other interesting minor scales as well like the harmonic and melodic to explore as well. Major scales usually sound to happy for metal, but anything is possible.

Gawd · #5 11-20-2010, 07:25 PM

Chromatic, the three minor scale variations, and diminished will come in the most handy. but it's also good to know the modes and experiment with pentatonic versions of each. Also with each scale get to know what chords and arpeggios can be built on each degree. Get to understand how symmetrical scales, wrong note scales, and synthetic scales work.

fourstringburn · #6 11-20-2010, 07:30 PM

I would like to know what "wrong note and synthetic scales" are please...

Gawd · #7 11-20-2010, 07:48 PM

A wrong note scale is a scale with one note altered, to essentially make it wrong, but usually gives some interesting affects. Such as a major scale with a b2.

A synthetic scale is two scales combined to make a new scale. Such as a harmonic major, combining the first part of a major scale and the second part of a harmonic minor scale. So C,D,E,F,G,Ab,B#,C.

As I understand it a wrong note scale is a sort of sub-set of the synthetic scale process.

fourstringburn · #8 11-20-2010, 08:02 PM

A wrong note scale seems more like scales with passing notes added. I Never learned these as I was classically trained but there is always something new to learn.

These are probably too advanced for beginners to comprehend though.

Gawd · #9 11-20-2010, 08:10 PM

It's not really passing tones because the minor 2 in the major scale would be replacing the major 2nd completely. It's something that's mainly used in jazz, but it's a good way to find interesting sounds out of regular scales which can be applied to any style.

fourstringburn · #10 11-20-2010, 09:51 PM

Interesting concept, It seems that these types of scales were developed within the jazz genre,at least recognized and named just like altered scales and chords. I have played many wrong note scales and synthetic scales in music scores without knowing it. These wrong notes outside the scale key were regarded as passing notes as I was taught. As such, the scale was usually written as a phrase and the altered note(s) in passing gave it it's dissonance.

By the same token, pentatonic and blues scales aren't mentioned or taught in classical music studies but are exclusively commonplace in rock music.

I believe this to be the ever evolving standards of different forms of music.

Stumbo · #11 11-21-2010, 10:49 PM

~Metal
Play Metal bass
Demystifying metal styles
Tuning your bass for metal discussion
Drop Tuning - which strings?

Samsound · #12 11-21-2010, 11:09 PM

Couple of nitpicks: 1) Mixolydian mode is not a minor scale - is major with a Dom 7; 2) Major scale with b2 is a Phrygian Major mode - one of the modes of the harmonic minor scale - so not sure if that disqualifies it from being a "wrong note scale".
One very common not specifically mentioned is Phrygian mode - natural minor with b2. Examples - Harvester of Sorrow, lots of Slayer tunes, etc etc.

fourstringburn · #13 11-21-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsound

Couple of nitpicks: 1) Mixolydian mode is not a minor scale - is major with a Dom 7; 2) Major scale with b2 is a Phrygian Major mode - one of the modes of the harmonic minor scale - so not sure if that disqualifies it from being a "wrong note scale".
One very common not specifically mentioned is Phrygian mode - natural minor with b2. Examples - Harvester of Sorrow, lots of Slayer tunes, etc etc.

Good catch! Yes a mixolydian scale is not a minor mode, it is a major scale with a flat seventh. I would say I hear it more in rock bands that I wouldn't really classify as "heavy metal" like Aerosmith and Guns and Roses.

The example used for a wrong note scale was just a random pick to show how an altered note within a particular scale can change the sound of that scale.

Willem · #14 11-22-2010, 06:38 AM

Do you guys know of any books that sum up all the scales (and the chords you can take from them)?

Step · #15 11-22-2010, 06:48 AM

there are lots of scale books. However, these don't really matter.

That is to say: learning scales won't let you learn how to apply them. Of course learning scales will be useful in someway but if you're thinking about making up cool basslines I'd stay away from using scale books and learn more about the HOW and WHY behind scales.

OTOH, if your guitarists know exactly what they're playing and are asking you to play melodies in phrygian, there's no other way out.

Step

Samsound · #16 11-22-2010, 07:43 AM

As Step mentioned, as a bassist these different scales and modes are mainly applied at the song/composition level, not the instrument level. In other words the chord progression (not just individual chords here and there) would be either built from them or built to imply them, and everyone is on the same page about using them. Just randomly throwing a D Phrygian line over a Dm won't really work if you've got Am and Em chords in there as well. A guitarist playing a solo might get away with it - modulating the tonality for one chord of 4 or 8, but not the bass generally.

Having said that, I can recommend this book: Scales and Modes In the Beginning.

Gawd · #17 11-22-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsound

Couple of nitpicks: 1) Mixolydian mode is not a minor scale - is major with a Dom 7; 2) Major scale with b2 is a Phrygian Major mode - one of the modes of the harmonic minor scale - so not sure if that disqualifies it from being a "wrong note scale".
One very common not specifically mentioned is Phrygian mode - natural minor with b2. Examples - Harvester of Sorrow, lots of Slayer tunes, etc etc.

Are you talking about the 6th mode of the harmonic minor scale? If so that's not quite the same as the major with a b2. The 6th mode of harmonic minor also has a b6 and a b7, 1,b2,3,4,5,b6,b7.

deadwtxsky · #18 11-22-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshpike.sl

im searching into learning new scales and expanding my playing ability. i play in a metal band and need some insight on what scales i should focus on learning to better my band and my abilities. any suggestions on any certain scales to focus on learning and perfecting?

DUDE Byzantine scale i think is what your looking for. 1 2b 3 4 5 6b 7

Essen · #19 11-22-2010, 01:14 PM

I have found a lot more use in knowing chords than scales. Both are good.

greenboy · #20 11-22-2010, 02:35 PM

I see the thread has progressed from "wrong note scales" to what them city slickers call 'em: modes ; }

Anyway, it's all good stuff to know, though I fall more into the Build Everything Around The Chords and approach, when used appropriately both arrive at about the same place. Sometimes the metal doesn't have enough chords to tell you much anyway, so the riffs (or hooks or melodies) tell you what notes you need to play.