Have I gotten lazy... or just found 'The Pocket' ?

[Techmonkey]

I don't wanna start a flame war about 5 or 6 string basses here, so please, keep it cool and to the point please

I play mainly 6 string, but every now and then I break out the 4 strings. since I've been playing in a cover band, it seems people like to see me having the right tool for the trade. I'm surprised to see the cover band leader, aswell as a few people in the audience, being glad to see the stingray when I'm doing RHCP covers, or the rickenbacker for the obligatory Franz Ferdinand covers.

but my problem is not with the covers band.. its with my originals band. we've been in the studio this week, and the engineer and my bandmates kept commenting on how low and deep my bass sounded (they were being positive about it)... but for the first time it made me actually sit down and listen to my own lines, properly. most of them just involve holding down a little bit of a groove on the B string, occasionally going up to the fifth or the octave just to emphasise a change in structure.

I compared this to the lines I wrote when I played exclusively 4 string bass... My basslines used to be a bit more 'happening', I used to have to think about them a lot more when I was playing, and the basslines were particularly distinctive 'riffs' that I would come up with in a moment of inspiration.

Have I gotten lazy? its easy to make a decent sounding bassline on the low B. I find it much easier to lock in with the drums and feel the groove... but are my old basslines going to be missed? is this style of playing going to prevent me from being able to write more technical basslines? or have I just finally learnt how to mellow out and take life in the slow lane of the sound spectrum?

thanks in advance!

[Jerose]

If you've gotten to the point where you can write great sounding "happening" bass lines AND be able to sit back and hold down a one or two note low end groove, then you are in a very very good place. At this point I'd say practice both, because the ability to switch back and forth when writing or performing a song is one of the most useful things I've come across as both an improv and writing musician.

You really haven't become lazy, you've found a way to broaden your ability and really change the way that a song feels through what you play.

[Count Bassie]

Hey Monkey,

There are a couple things I've come to realize about being a bass player- and this after years of failing at being Jaco: One is that I'm a musician, and most people who listen to music are not. They don't care what note it is, or how I got to it. It doesn't matter what amp, bass, or technique/chops I use, or what's in my "musicianship bag".

Another thing I learned is that people I play with often don't know or care about those things either. They want the song to move at a nice clip and feel positive; and they want a pocket that compliments the song and (this is big) makes them sound good! This is the stuff that makes you a good bass player on a functional level. It's what will keep you 'working', anyway.

A bass line that works is often a very simple thing: Not always easy to nail, perhaps, but it's usually not a lot of actual work. Let it go, let it be easy! Your musical signature will remain, and that's something you can't really do much about- you can't lose that!

The biggest and most important thing I've come to realize is that you'll do well to avoid judging your own work. Just because you're a good bass player doesn't mean you actually realize the impact of what you've just said on your instrument. Just say it.

EDIT: +1 on what Jerose said too. Jamming and reaching is a great thing to do. Also practicing is different than playing or performing. The right mode for the right context. Yep, it sounds like you're widening your venue. Very cool!

[mothmonsterman]

no shame in holding down a one or two note groove IMO.
My basslines always start out that way. Some have even stayed that way.

[Marcury]

As far as I'm concerned an interesting, funky, in the pocket two note groove is the hardest thing to do.

[jumbosilverette]

This is a really interesting question...and one that has no definitive answer. But I would say a good bassline 'serves the song, not the bassist.' Unnecsessarily busy basslines are for noodlers and technique weenies. And I find those kinds of musicians boring, imnsho.

[Humblerumble]

Listen to Larry Klein on Julia Fordham's That's Live. Nice simple lines that IMO sound great and fit the songs perfectly. Sounds like that is what you are describing.

[tZer]

Not lazy at all!! Counter intuitively, the opposite, in my opinion... What I mean is that even though it seems like "more work" to play a busy line, it's actually harder to lay off and play more minimally.

I am a busy player and every time I listen to the playback of a jam session I ALWAYS, without fail, wish I played less. It's not that I didn't think at the time what I was doing fit - and it usually does with no complaints from my band mates...

But in my honest opinion of what the song really needed, had I chosen to play fewer notes and a little less frenetically, the parts would have sounded fuller and more solid.

So I am on a mission!! I tell myself, and my drummer, and my band mates, that I want to focus HARD on the pocket and nailing down the groove. By saying it to myself and others it helps me to think about it when we're playing. Lately it's paid off in comments just like what you describe where the band starts saying, "Man... we sound good! I never realized how important the groove was..."

[MarkTAW]

I suspect the deep lows of the 5 change your playing. Deep lows like that move slower & are more resistant to change. It's not the sole factor in the change, but it probably is a factor.

[Dogbertday]

http://www.myspace.com/1956theband

this is a band That my band plays shows with once in a while... in fact we played a show last night with them and I a always shocked at how simple the basslines are but howmuch they serve the song.... "class it up" has gotta be one of my favorites... these guys show how simple can be heavy and groove and have al that good stuff

[manicbassman]

Welcome to the groove...

Less is more... keep it simple...

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/se...e/jul-06/21984

you don't have to play every note of each chord and hit every beat in the bar... leave notes out of the chord and rely on the guitars etc. to make it (but always make sure you play the root or the other indicated note if it's a "slash" chord)... leave spaces for the others to fill...

[JimmyM]

Yeah, groove...one or two note grooves are OK sometimes, but let's not insinuate that the groove is dead if someone happens to play a flashy bassline. If the song requires a 2-note pattern on the low string, fine. If it requires a flashy bassline played up higher, don't let the bass dictate otherwise. Victor Wooten once said "I play the bass. I don't let the bass play me." Best advice I ever got.

[MrBorisSpider]

Playing a lower string/tuning totally changes the way you play. Paul Romanko of Shadows Fall once said that he plays less notes on the lower strings. Playing blistering Rocco Prestia-like 16ths on a drop-C tuned bass or a low B would sound like total mud, especially with a drummer and the rest of the band.

I'm trying and struggling to play less with my four and have thought about getting a stringray HH 5 or a P-bass 5 just so I can force myself to groove with a handful of notes on the B and E strings and occasionally the top two.

[Wootsticks]

Forcing yourself into a groove is not a good thing to do.

[profdannyspit]

Originally Posted by jumbosilverette

This is a really interesting question...and one that has no definitive answer. But I would say a good bassline 'serves the song, not the bassist.' Unnecsessarily busy basslines are for noodlers and technique weenies. And I find those kinds of musicians boring, imnsho.

I agree with that 100%

If it sounds good....then it's good, it doesn't matter how technical it is.

[MarkTAW]

Weird how differently this thread evolved from the "lead bass?" thread....

[MrBorisSpider]

[quote=Wootsticks;5855165]Forcing yourself into a groove is not a good thing to do.[/QUOT

I misspoke myself. I mean to say, change the circumstances of what I would normally play. The 5ers (My favourite so far has been the MM Stringray 5 HH 20th aniversary editions) make me more careful of how I pick or pluck.

I tend to be more conservative which is good. I focus less on the chordal instrument and more on the bass drum. That means I noodle less and groove more.

[CopperState]

Originally Posted by tZer

I am a busy player and every time I listen to the playback of a jam session I ALWAYS, without fail, wish I played less. It's not that I didn't think at the time what I was doing fit - and it usually does with no complaints from my band mates...

But in my honest opinion of what the song really needed, had I chosen to play fewer notes and a little less frenetically, the parts would have sounded fuller and more solid.

Big ditto. I've learned to write this way with 'originals' bands. If I have time on the clock, I'll make the scratch track whatever I feel like playing. Like you said, it usually sounds too messy in the playback. Then I can go back and edit some noodly-ness out of it, nudge it closer to groovy.

Similarly, I've had writer friends tell me that good short stories are much more difficult to pull off than 800 page novels.

O. Henry: the new bassplayer role model! Er, something.

[Count Bassie]

Originally Posted by MrBorisSpider

I'm trying and struggling to play less with my four and have thought about getting a stringray HH 5 or a P-bass 5 just so I can force myself to groove with a handful of notes on the B and E strings and occasionally the top two.

Got a beater 4-string? Tune it B-E-A-D. You might need to give the truss rod a twist about 1/4 turn, but there you go. Then you don't even have that upper G, so you limit your choices.

Limitation is the Mother of Invention.

[Count Bassie]

Originally Posted by Wootsticks

Forcing yourself into a groove is not a good thing to do.

Ok, but putting yourself into a position that you need to be creative to resolve can be a good exercise.

No real grooving groove is forced anyway.