Have we become too " slap happy " ??? - Page 14

JohnDavisNYC · #**261** 01-17-2008, 07:44 AM

modern culture is all about instant gratification.... having 37 strings on a converted coffee table made from all sorts of expensive jungle wood and then arhythmically flailing a fleshy stump at it, whilst adding chorus and reverb, all the time feebly making out a minor pentatonic scale with your left hand is far more gratifying in the short term than actually learning about music and how to play it.... way too much work involved in the latter.

slapping was a great tool. it has been relegated to gimmick by far too many unmusical practitioners... i love me some great thumb technique, but the key to all the great players is a deep understanding of music and THE ROLE OF THE BASS... we play a support instrument 90% of the time... in some styles of music, it is appropriate to take solos (jazz), but that is not the reason for the instrument's existence.

we fill a very important role in modern music, in that the bass is the link between rhythm and harmony, and we must be masters of both in order to do our job correctly. sometimes that can be a very easy task, sometimes it can feel nearly impossible.

i found this forum because some people were discussing my pedal board, and i must say that i am amazed that the electric bass is still 'slap n tap' happy, like it was when i stopped caring about that stuff 10 years ago.

it is great to try to expand the palette of the instrument, but one must have a mastery of the fundamentals before trying to change the world with breathtaking solo virtuosity.

wow. rant party.

cheers,
john

Audiophage · #**262** 01-17-2008, 08:41 AM

Whats with the negative connotations towards Pentatonic scales?

JohnDavisNYC · #**263** 01-17-2008, 08:54 AM

i think you missed my point... there is nothing wrong with pentatonic scales. they are great. they are lame when they are all someone knows for their 'solo' and they sound like a 12 year old guitarist trying to learn how to play the blues.

anyway, like i said it was a rant, and i'm sure to offend people, but that is fine...

there is too much 'bass stuff' type playing out there with absolutely no musical substance behind it.

john

buliwyfff · #**264** 01-17-2008, 10:03 AM

I mostly tap for solos/leads slap pop maybe 1 minute total in our set

dls59 · #**265** 01-18-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloBass

Dale, hey man, we were ALL young, dumb, and full of ... at some point too.

But yeah, its that "popular demand" of liking the slapped bass, with chop less newbies wanking it, that, I believe, makes us ALL cringe.

Its funny, I'm not a great plyer, but clutch in the mix. My bandmates wont let me leave. But at GC, man, I'm crap, nothing, nada. Just gotta smile!

I hear you. I have no cool Guitar Center lines. I don't even know any lines. I've been playing for 33 years, and can glue a band together, have played steadily all those years, recorded bass on several CDs, but get me into a Guitar Center, and I've got nothing! Nothing but bass, that is.

The deal is, I play SONGS, not LINES. I think SONGS, not LINES.

I guess the fact that I never play a song the exact same way twice also might have something to do with it.

DWBass · #**266** 01-18-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

i found this forum because some people were discussing my pedal board, and i must say that i am amazed that the electric bass is still 'slap n tap' happy, like it was when i stopped caring about that stuff 10 years ago.

it is great to try to expand the palette of the instrument, but one must have a mastery of the fundamentals before trying to change the world with breathtaking solo virtuosity.

wow. rant party.

cheers,
john

Hey, if it keeps them off the streets and out of jail.......

For all those 'slap n tap' kiddies making youtube videos, I'd be willing to bet 90% of them aren't, won't or can't be in a band! Most 'grown folk' and mature bassists aren't doing that stuff. We leave that to the Wooten types, Flea types and Mark King types. I love funk more than any other style of music and I love old school 'real' thumpin' & pluckin'! It pains me to not see much of that being copied or properly learned. Gimme something melodic and not all that clickity clackity crap!

BuffaloBass · #**267** 01-20-2008, 05:22 AM

DW, donnow Mark King, and I'm really, really hesitant to compare players' skill, but what Vic does, fully integrating the pulse of the song in the slapped bass line, and what Flea does , which I wont even characterize as I've only heard a few things here and there, are not the same form of slap.

If you asked each of them to "finger out" a new bass line for you, you'd get very different results.

Part of that difference, a large part, is genre. Rock doesnt lend itself as readily to slap as R&B/soul simply because of the timing and bpms, I think. But I hear and feel" slapped lines oftentimes in the original work we do. (Hope in a few months , we'll have it recorded and I'll share them for your critizism.) Sometimes they work, soemtimes they dont, and it depends on the "pulse".

Put it to y'all this way, the closer the pulse of the song is to your heartbeat, the more a precussive slapped line seems to work.

Still trying out slapped lines under a screaming guitar lead and trying to draw conclusions from that. First one, keep it simple and precussive, ghost plucks are preferred as std plucks can trounce on the guitar's voice.

Oh, and I try and keep away from octave plucks, as, no matter what, you do more than one of those in a bar, and its DISCO! Even if you're jammin' on early Sabbath. SO fifths and thirds are preferred!

jschwalls · #**268** 01-21-2008, 03:27 PM

Back in th early 90's when i was taking lessons from Beaver Felton... i asked about learning slap... tried it for a while.. gave up.... I realized that it wasn't for me or the type of music i was into... besides that just watching Beaver slap was so damn intimidating that i am suprised i am still playing bass at all.. It was truly a great honor to be able to be taught by a Master Class musician like Beaver.
I will still use my thumb on occasion for effect.. ie.. Running With The Devil intro... verse to Man in a Box....,
but the whole slap, pop thing is just not happening here.

JON

slugworth · #**269** 01-21-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWBass

Well, I went through that one and didn't see the word 'HATE' mentioned but a couple times but not regarding the style of playing but one's personal use of a pick. Maybe the other threads got a little more heated but I still feel slap gets a bit more IRE and it seems to be a bit more deeply rooted type of hate, IMO. I get the feeling, by some, that they wish the style was never invented. I don't sense that regarding pick playing.

Y'know that's kinda strange, but sorta true. A few months back I was doing a sub gig with a Classic Rock band. After our second set, this tall, really good looking girl came up to me and said "Hey mister, why do you play with a pick?" I said, "well, that's just the way I play" She then started asking a million questions and asking me if I've heard of Flea, and all these other players, blah blah blah. "Yeah, but you can't slap with a pick" I said "oh really? well, stick around" So on the next set, the band did it's regular cheesy funk medley thing with "Jungle Boogie" "Play that Funky Music" "Brick House". About half way thru, I got bored and launched into about a 64 bar bass solo. I threw everything in but the kitchen sink; picked runs, ghost notes, pick slaps, and what I call "pickpops"
which is like hybrid guitar picking incorporating a pick and fingers. Then I stuck the pick to my forehead and went at it with thumb and fingers. About half way thru my solo, I looked up and she was about three feet in front of me, standing there, staring...After the set, she came up to me and said "Man, I've never seen anybody play that way, can I have one of your picks?".....I got a kick out of that....The archer is more important than the bow, and either you've got the funk, or you don't....

slugworth · #**270** 01-21-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jschwalls

Back in th early 90's when i was taking lessons from Beaver Felton

JON

Y'know, that guy is really one helluva player and highly underrated...

**Pacman** · #**271** 01-21-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slugworth

About half way thru, I got bored and launched into about a 64 bar bass solo. I threw everything in but the kitchen sink; picked runs, ghost notes, pick slaps, and what I call "pickpops"
which is like hybrid guitar picking incorporating a pick and fingers. Then I stuck the pick to my forehead and went at it with thumb and fingers. About half way thru my solo, I looked up and she was about three feet in front of me, standing there, staring...After the set, she came up to me and said "Man, I've never seen anybody play that way, can I have one of your picks?".....I got a kick out of that....The archer is more important than the bow, and either you've got the funk, or you don't....

So you didn't honor the groove?

slugworth · #**272** 01-21-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

So you didn't honor the groove?

There might have been a groove in there, somewhere...
Funny thing, I ran into the cats in that band a couple months later, they were still talking about my nutjob bass solo..They said they actually taped that gig, and have been laughing about that solo (in a good way) ever since...I'll have to see if I can get a copy of it and post it up on my website, although I don't usually give a rodent's rectum about playing or listening to bass solos..Especially my own.

**Pacman** · #**273** 01-21-2008, 08:26 PM

I must confess, I've had those moments too - like all that self-denial just builds up and you have to let it go.....

slugworth · #**274** 01-21-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

I must confess, I've had those moments too - like all that self-denial just builds up and you have to let it go.....

I was thinking it was more like a Peter North kinda thing..Unexpected, bizarre, and shocking, yet strangely compelling.

Hoover · #**275** 01-22-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

modern culture is all about instant gratification.... having 37 strings on a converted coffee table made from all sorts of expensive jungle wood and then arhythmically flailing a fleshy stump at it, whilst adding chorus and reverb, all the time feebly making out a minor pentatonic scale with your left hand is far more gratifying in the short term than actually learning about music and how to play it...

I laughed so hard when I read that I passed coffee through my nose!

JohnDavisNYC · #**276** 01-22-2008, 07:35 AM

thanks, i do what i can. i'll be here all week.

john

BuffaloBass · #**277** 01-23-2008, 08:48 AM

Slugworth says " The archer is more important than the bow, and either you've got the funk, or you don't...."

Archer more important than the bow... Man, I'm gonna keep that ditty in mind, I like that!

Impressin' the gals...

grieverOSOK · #**278** 01-23-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

modern culture is all about instant gratification.... having 37 strings on a converted coffee table made from all sorts of expensive jungle wood and then arhythmically flailing a fleshy stump at it, whilst adding chorus and reverb, all the time feebly making out a minor pentatonic scale with your left hand is far more gratifying in the short term than actually learning about music and how to play it.... way too much work involved in the latter.

that pretty much sums it up.

to me its really like any form of wankery: when one instrument gets over involved and dominant it really limits the rest of the band. we've all played with or seen guitarists or drummers who do this and most of us have probably seen bassists fall victim as well. if you like slap then by all means slap away, but i personally would rather see a band work as a cohesive unit than one person completely dominate.