Have we become too " slap happy " ???

[SmittyG]

Originally Posted by spencer

What is the point of this thread?

I'm just going to take a shot in the dark here: Bass players on a bass forum discussing issues about playing bass.


There are a lot of threads/discussions that I find done to death. The whole "What string/pickup/bass/amp/whatever should I get?" makes no sense to me whatsoever. How can I, or any other musician, know what's best for someone else? But, if folks want to discuss that stuff, it's no skin off my back side. If I want to join in the discussion, I'll join in. Otherwise, I just skip on to a topic I do wish to discuss.

[SmittyG]

I was reading back over my comments here, and thinking back to what I've said on other forums, and I got to thinking about the fact that maybe I just never gave this style of playing a real chance. I didn't like blues or jazz the first time I heard them and now they are my favorites genres of music. Maybe, if I just give this slapping stuff a chance, I might like it as well. I might not. But then, it really won't cost me much to try.

Great, the thread started out being about too much slap and now I'm talking about adding to the problem.

[Riouken]

I'm a bass player. I love being a bass player.

But this thread sums up a lot of what I absoltuely hate about hte bass guitar community today.

Nothing but prejudice and elitism founded upon nothing but bitterness and misguided critisism.

I will get a lot of stick for this, but this is not an issue of technique as much as it is playing. The bass community is all too happy to be the "modest group", the "welcoming group" etc. but when it comes to a technique (nothing more than how you hit the string) we get a lot of elitism thrown in.

If a bass player posts a vid and does simple finger-style but it sounds 'bad' to most people, he will be welcomed with open arms.

If a bass player posts a vid of him trying to slap like mad and achieve his goals he gets shot down (this is in my experience only of course). Why does he get shot down? It's another way to hit the string and slap holds its place within the "groove" (I hate that word) as much as anything else.

I'd like to point out here that, to me, the word "groove", in terms of a crit at someones playing and/or tehcnique, ammounts to nothing but "good". And good is of course subjective. The word groove is getting banded about like some objectivity that defines a tehcnique as useful or not. Slap grooves as much as tap and yes... the sacred finger-style.

I welcome all types of tehcnique and listen with attention. I hate how Stu Hamm slaps... do I hate slap? No. I LOVE how Victor Wooten slaps. It all comes down to the player and certainly not the tehcnique. I think it is actually the people who claim. "it's not about technique", are the ones focusing too much on technique. I tihnk it is wrong to say you hate "slap bass" when I am sure there is someone out there who uses it brilliantly.

The real issue here is this traditionalist arrogance that remains in the bass community and is getting passed down to insecure youngsters who feel condescended and belittled by people who ARE focusing too much on technique.

Sorry for the big post and the rant, it wasn't pointed at anyone specific, simply as a generalisation in my experience of most bass players I have met.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Riouken

I'm a bass player. I love being a bass player.

But this thread sums up a lot of what I absoltuely hate about hte bass guitar community today.

Nothing but prejudice and elitism founded upon nothing but bitterness and misguided critisism.

I will get a lot of stick for this, but this is not an issue of technique as much as it is playing. The bass community is all too happy to be the "modest group", the "welcoming group" etc. but when it comes to a technique (nothing more than how you hit the string) we get a lot of elitism thrown in.

If a bass player posts a vid and does simple finger-style but it sounds 'bad' to most people, he will be welcomed with open arms.

If a bass player posts a vid of him trying to slap like mad and achieve his goals he gets shot down (this is in my experience only of course). Why does he get shot down? It's another way to hit the string and slap holds its place within the "groove" (I hate that word) as much as anything else.

I'd like to point out here that, to me, the word "groove", in terms of a crit at someones playing and/or tehcnique, ammounts to nothing but "good". And good is of course subjective. The word groove is getting banded about like some objectivity that defines a tehcnique as useful or not. Slap grooves as much as tap and yes... the sacred finger-style.

I welcome all types of tehcnique and listen with attention. I hate how Stu Hamm slaps... do I hate slap? No. I LOVE how Victor Wooten slaps. It all comes down to the player and certainly not the tehcnique. I think it is actually the people who claim. "it's not about technique", are the ones focusing too much on technique. I tihnk it is wrong to say you hate "slap bass" when I am sure there is someone out there who uses it brilliantly.

The real issue here is this traditionalist arrogance that remains in the bass community and is getting passed down to insecure youngsters who feel condescended and belittled by people who ARE focusing too much on technique.

Sorry for the big post and the rant, it wasn't pointed at anyone specific, simply as a generalisation in my experience of most bass players I have met.

It has nothing to do with elitism at all

I don't like the sound of slap. I like the sound of fingerstyle and tapping, and to a lesser extent picking.

I dislike slap pretty much no matter what someone does with it, but it doesn't help that very few people know how to use it tastefully.

there's really nothing more to it

[f'nar f'nar]

Originally Posted by Riouken

I'm a bass player. I love being a bass player.

But this thread sums up a lot of what I absoltuely hate about hte bass guitar community today.

Nothing but prejudice and elitism founded upon nothing but bitterness and misguided critisism.

I will get a lot of stick for this, but this is not an issue of technique as much as it is playing. The bass community is all too happy to be the "modest group", the "welcoming group" etc. but when it comes to a technique (nothing more than how you hit the string) we get a lot of elitism thrown in.

If a bass player posts a vid and does simple finger-style but it sounds 'bad' to most people, he will be welcomed with open arms.

If a bass player posts a vid of him trying to slap like mad and achieve his goals he gets shot down (this is in my experience only of course). Why does he get shot down? It's another way to hit the string and slap holds its place within the "groove" (I hate that word) as much as anything else.

I'd like to point out here that, to me, the word "groove", in terms of a crit at someones playing and/or tehcnique, ammounts to nothing but "good". And good is of course subjective. The word groove is getting banded about like some objectivity that defines a tehcnique as useful or not. Slap grooves as much as tap and yes... the sacred finger-style.

I welcome all types of tehcnique and listen with attention. I hate how Stu Hamm slaps... do I hate slap? No. I LOVE how Victor Wooten slaps. It all comes down to the player and certainly not the tehcnique. I think it is actually the people who claim. "it's not about technique", are the ones focusing too much on technique. I tihnk it is wrong to say you hate "slap bass" when I am sure there is someone out there who uses it brilliantly.

The real issue here is this traditionalist arrogance that remains in the bass community and is getting passed down to insecure youngsters who feel condescended and belittled by people who ARE focusing too much on technique.

Sorry for the big post and the rant, it wasn't pointed at anyone specific, simply as a generalisation in my experience of most bass players I have met.

At first this post really annoyed me but when I think about it, there is definately at least SOME truth and what you have written here.

There is elitism throughout communities of every instrument:

Drummers: Double kick, yay or nay?
Guitarist: Does a shredder make a good guitarist?
Bass: Groove above technique... but if you make two equal grooves, one with a pick and one with fingers, the finger groove is far superior.

I see what you're saying, bassists are meant to be the most accepting of the musicians going around, mainly because we know we will never be widely accepted as fantastic musicians like, say, Jimmi Hendrix. Apparently bass just isn't hard enough.

You can take the instrument out of the elitist group, but you can't take the elitist group away from the instrument. (if that makes sense)

[morf]

Originally Posted by Riouken

I'm a bass player. I love being a bass player.

But this thread sums up a lot of what I absoltuely hate about hte bass guitar community today.

Nothing but prejudice and elitism founded upon nothing but bitterness and misguided critisism.

I will get a lot of stick for this, but this is not an issue of technique as much as it is playing. The bass community is all too happy to be the "modest group", the "welcoming group" etc. but when it comes to a technique (nothing more than how you hit the string) we get a lot of elitism thrown in.

If a bass player posts a vid and does simple finger-style but it sounds 'bad' to most people, he will be welcomed with open arms.

If a bass player posts a vid of him trying to slap like mad and achieve his goals he gets shot down (this is in my experience only of course). Why does he get shot down? It's another way to hit the string and slap holds its place within the "groove" (I hate that word) as much as anything else.

I'd like to point out here that, to me, the word "groove", in terms of a crit at someones playing and/or tehcnique, ammounts to nothing but "good". And good is of course subjective. The word groove is getting banded about like some objectivity that defines a tehcnique as useful or not. Slap grooves as much as tap and yes... the sacred finger-style.

I welcome all types of tehcnique and listen with attention. I hate how Stu Hamm slaps... do I hate slap? No. I LOVE how Victor Wooten slaps. It all comes down to the player and certainly not the tehcnique. I think it is actually the people who claim. "it's not about technique", are the ones focusing too much on technique. I tihnk it is wrong to say you hate "slap bass" when I am sure there is someone out there who uses it brilliantly.

The real issue here is this traditionalist arrogance that remains in the bass community and is getting passed down to insecure youngsters who feel condescended and belittled by people who ARE focusing too much on technique.

Sorry for the big post and the rant, it wasn't pointed at anyone specific, simply as a generalisation in my experience of most bass players I have met.

There is no arrogance or misguided criticism here. Most people who slap have no sense of groove or harmony, heck most of them just EQ smiley face and bang on their basses like they're beating the crap out of it. Type "slap bass" on YouTube, for every good, decent slap video you have 20 horrible ones.

The problem people have here isn't with people doing slap, it's with people doing ONLY slap, or resorting to slap when they are out of ideas, or when it doesn't fit the music at all but still is "fun" for the "bassist".

I don't slap often, and when I do it's at home mostly doing RHCP's simple stuff. When do I do it? When I get stuck fingerstyle wise, and I need a rush to get me back into the rhythm to play in the pocket.

I'm not a particularly great slapper but I get a decent tone and I don't slap/pop all over the place when I do it. But how many times have I been playing a groove in a music store only to see some 16yr old pick up a squire P and start blasting away with no sense of groove or rhythm? Everytime I'm there.

You hate the word groove? Buy a guitar.

[BuffaloBass]

Interesting replies, The bass community is alive and well.

It is fun. And I use it, sparingly. And I study it, technique -wise. We do an original tune about child prostitution, when the tune gets "heavy", I slap the carp out of it. Minor double stops and all. Its sounds PERFECT in that context. Mean and angry.

I dig "slapping" in unison with the drummer. Its sounds tighter than a black cat's cXXX.

But slap solos are what got me kinda down it it. Not my solos, I prefer melodic, near spartan riffs. Why? In deference to Mother Music, they fill the void. My best solo on an orignal tune happens on ONE STRING! Well, OK I do use chords towards the end. And I've other bassist in the audience say" Man I dont even like bass solos, but that was tasty!". I'm sure he wouldnt have said that if I slapped it. Which would have been incongruous to the music.

Morf, thats funny. I'm the guy that you might think sucks at GC. I have no " audition" riffs. Even the 16 yr olds sound better than me! But last time I was working a pulse slap, broke out and hit some high chords ( testing a Mark Bass ) , and a brother walked over and said " tight groove man". He must be a true musician!

[morf]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBass

Morf, thats funny. I'm the guy that you might think sucks at GC. I have no " audition" riffs. Even the 16 yr olds sound better than me! But last time I was working a pulse slap, broke out and hit some high chords ( testing a Mark Bass ) , and a brother walked over and said " tight groove man". He must be a true musician!

Whats funny is you understood my post backwards.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by morf

1) no sense of groove or harmony

2) most of them just EQ smiley face

3) bang on their basses like they're beating the crap out of it.

4) Type "slap bass" on YouTube, for every good, decent slap video you have 20 horrible ones.

5) doing ONLY slap

6) resorting to slap when they are out of ideas

7) when it doesn't fit the music at all

8) 16yr old pick up a squire P and start blasting away with no sense of groove or rhythm? Everytime

1 post, 8 good reasons to hate slap

[Pacman]

Weird, I only see 8 reasons to hate bad bass players....

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Weird, I only see 8 reasons to hate bad bass players....

8 reasons to hate poor musicians who use slap

is that better

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

8 reasons to hate poor musicians who use slap

is that better

Yep. I have no problem with that - I just don't like the idea of hating on a technique or sound because some people don't do it well. Listen to guys to do use it well...

[bassman312]

if it sounds good its good period. Whatever the technique.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Yep. I have no problem with that - I just don't like the idea of hating on a technique or sound because some people don't do it well. Listen to guys to do use it well...

no you're totally right


I wasn't saying that slap automatically = poor musicianship, just that poor musicianship often = slap

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

I wasn't saying that slap automatically = poor musicianship, just that poor musicianship often = slap

Well, you have a point there. Slap = the lazy musician's crutch?

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Well, you have a point there. Slap = the lazy musician's crutch?

well it can be.

I'm not saying slap is the only crutch but it's a big one.

[CraigG]

I think we've become as "tap happy" as we are "slap happy" - maybe more. There was a time, when it was fresh and not too many people were doing it that it was intriguing. But it ended up the way guitarists flocked to do the Eddie Van Halen thing; tapping and then shredding. Once "everyone" was doing it, it lost its allure (at least for me). I would much rather hear a tasteful player over a "tapper-slapper."

Craig

[NEWYEARKID]

I love this board-I love the fact that sometimes I get upset when I see some opinions...I get upset at myself for not having an open mind or not learning enough about music to understand the other persons views-I get upset at myself for being defensive/elitist/dismissive..the things that keep me from learning and improving.
I am not burned out on slapping,fretless, tapping, chords or any of the other "modern" techniques in contemporary bass playing...I am totally over the poor tone,taste and complete lack of any musicality exhibited by some. Look we have to be honest with ourselves. How many times have we gone to a music store and laughed at the heavy metal kid playing the mindless stream of speed picking,sweeping, tapping and wang bar tricks with no vibrato no timing/phrasing and a tone like a mosquito trapped in a jar...TOO MANY TIMES.
Is this any different than when we see a bass player jackhammering triplets in the key of E, double thumbing a scale mindlessly and using a sound that makes you want to print a t shirt that says midrange is your friend? I think not. I love slapping thats done in a musical way like Miller or Wooten or Mark King.. a recognizable melody played over some harmonically interesting progression with dynamics. What we're seeing is a Pavlov dog mentality-the dog heard the bell and equated it with food ...the bass version-the audience see a lot of aggressive flailing and flash and equates it with music.
We as a community are not sick of slapping-we are sick of poor playing of any manner being perpetrated upon the public. Sorry for the rant.

[morf]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Yep. I have no problem with that - I just don't like the idea of hating on a technique or sound because some people don't do it well. Listen to guys to do use it well...

Dead on.

[Elemetal]

K people even in my school just blow at bass and blow at slapping and people worship these players just 'cause they can do ****ing octave slap and pop things really fast and now when I say really fast it has no rhythmic goodness to it at all. However all the people in my school who know a thing or two about music say I'm the better player. I have a Jazz song in Jazz band where I slap in and no one's seen it from the non music side of things so who knows they'll either think it sucks cause it's more musical and not fast octave slap and pop or they'll think its dope because it will actually sound good. I think slap is way overrated these days.