Heatwave and Oy Ye Como Va

gm2_in_co · #1 08-02-2010, 07:56 PM

Listening to an oldies radio show the other night and am in a phase of listening to bass parts in particular. I came up with a couple questions that I'm not sure are technique, recording technique, or simply gear related:

First is exemplified by "Heatwave" as recorded by Linda Ronstadt. On certain riffs, the bass attack seems to simply explode? It was a common sound during that time, but how did they get it? Were the bass drum and bass guitar simply that "locked in" or is there something more involved?

Second is the classic Santana version of "Oy Ye Como Va." The word "woody" is often thrown about in reference to tone... so much so that I've come to think of it as any tone that is "warm" with a soft attack and rapid decay. But on this song, there really is a WOODY sound that seems to escape me. Then again, I've never had the opportunity to play famed hollow bodies like EB2s, Rivolis, and Starfires. Is that what I'm hearing or is there some technique I don't know about? I do all the stuff with playing up the neck, using flatwounds or tapewounds, etc. and while I'm OK with the tone I'm getting, I know its nothing like Santana's bass player is getting.

JimK · #2 08-03-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gm2_in_co

I do all the stuff with playing up the neck, using flatwounds or tapewounds, etc. and while I'm OK with the tone I'm getting, I know its nothing like Santana's bass player is getting.

I'm pretty sure David Brown of Santana played Fender P-basses...I'm using roundwounds (on either a P or a J) & playing up the neck & I (used to) get close.
Sometimes, it's a mental thing. Put yourself in the frame of mind that you're going to play it just like David Brown.
That said, those early Santana albums were recorded very well...everything seems to sit just right in the mix.

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #3 08-03-2010, 07:18 PM

As far as I can recall from some live Santana videos I've seen, a baby bass (EUB) is kept standing still during the whole concert and it's only used for "Oye Cómo Va" (here's an example - the cameramen don't find the bass player interesting, unfortunately). It wouldn't surprise me that a baby bass were also used for the original recording.

gm2_in_co · #4 08-03-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

As far as I can recall from some live Santana videos I've seen, a baby bass (EUB) is kept standing still during the whole concert and it's only used for "Oye Cómo Va" (here's an example - the cameramen don't find the bass player interesting, unfortunately). It wouldn't surprise me that a baby bass were also used for the original recording.

Aha! That would explain it then. Still looking for that elusive fretless ABG which might be as close as I ever come. I do ponder uprights every time I see one on craigslist... Hmm... Just had a thought! I wonder how close I could come on my guitarron?

Nashrakh · #5 08-05-2010, 05:25 PM

In this video, Brown seems to use a Fender P though. Well, you can't see much, but it's a Fender headstock. And since I saw him play his sunburst P on pretty much all videos I ever saw him play in, I think it's gotta be that one.

I play Oye como va as part of my warm-up session before practicing to get in the groove.

I play a Fender P, La Bella flats. Pluck with fingers near or above the neck. The best results I get for this song is to pluck above the 17th fret. Very smooth, woody sound.

elgecko · #6 08-05-2010, 05:42 PM

Okay, I'm listening to studio version of Oye Como Va right now. I'm pretty sure that's an Ampeg Baby Bass.

The easiest way to approximate that sound would be to roll the treble way down and stuff some foam under the strings near bridge.

Nashrakh · #7 08-05-2010, 07:38 PM

Not sure if they're worth the price tag though. After some searching, I found Baby Basses go for 2 grand upwards, which is a bummer... :|

gm2_in_co · #8 08-06-2010, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nashrakh

In this video, Brown seems to use a Fender P though. Well, you can't see much, but it's a Fender headstock. And since I saw him play his sunburst P on pretty much all videos I ever saw him play in, I think it's gotta be that one.

I play Oye como va as part of my warm-up session before practicing to get in the groove.

I play a Fender P, La Bella flats. Pluck with fingers near or above the neck. The best results I get for this song is to pluck above the 17th fret. Very smooth, woody sound.

Thanks! Not well heeled enough or single focused enough to own a Fender, but I can slap some Jamersons on my Westone p bass and see what that sounds like.

gm2_in_co · #9 08-06-2010, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgecko

Okay, I'm listening to studio version of Oye Como Va right now. I'm pretty sure that's an Ampeg Baby Bass.

The easiest way to approximate that sound would be to roll the treble way down and stuff some foam under the strings near bridge.

Yeah, the bass in that video is definitely not the same sounding as the one in the studio recording. Those Ampeg's are cool but just a pipe dream as far as I'm concerned.

JTE · #10 08-06-2010, 11:36 AM

I think a large part of the production values of those two recordings that make the bass stand out so nicely is that the kick drum doesn't rule the low end. None of the bombastic post-Bonzo kick happening down there. That and the space the keys leave for the bass give them that sound. It's like the interminable discussion about live sound and "cutting through the mix". These records aren't about anyone cutting through, it's all about everyone having their own space so you can hear everything. Who knows how Kenny Edward's or Dave Brown's bass track sounded when soloed. The critical part is how it fits INTO the mix, and how the sound of the other instruments and voices fit into the mix.

John

JimK · #11 08-06-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgecko

Okay, I'm listening to studio version of Oye Como Va right now. I'm pretty sure that's an Ampeg Baby Bass.

I dug out the album (which was one of the first LPs I ever owned...I got Abraxas, Led Zep III, & the J-5's ABC for my 14th birthday in '72. Yeah, nice to know I had eclectic tastes even back then).

Of course, the liners are never 100%...
"Bass Guitar": David Brown. No other "bass" intstruments listed. What little I have read about Brown shows no evidence of him playing a vertical-style bass.

JimK · #12 08-06-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nashrakh

In this video, Brown seems to use a Fender P though.

Cool video...although not actually the "original" Santana band as advertised.
Neil Schon was did not appear until Santana/Miles Live & Santana III.
...also, Michael Shrieve was not the original drummer & Michael Carabello replaced a co-founder/percussionist that was imprisoned for murder.

In any event, the early Santana band, IMO, ranks right up there as one of the best American Rock bands.

gm2_in_co · #13 08-06-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

I think a large part of the production values of those two recordings that make the bass stand out so nicely is that the kick drum doesn't rule the low end. None of the bombastic post-Bonzo kick happening down there. That and the space the keys leave for the bass give them that sound. It's like the interminable discussion about live sound and "cutting through the mix". These records aren't about anyone cutting through, it's all about everyone having their own space so you can hear everything. Who knows how Kenny Edward's or Dave Brown's bass track sounded when soloed. The critical part is how it fits INTO the mix, and how the sound of the other instruments and voices fit into the mix.

John

Excellent point!