Help Improving my Timing

[canyouflybobby]

Hi Folks

Ok well I've been playing the bass for just over a year now I still think I'm a beginner really. I've got a Bass teacher who is pretty good and according to him I'm doing pretty well.

I'm in my thirties now with no music background from school or college etc.... I also work full-time with a demanding wife so I try hard to get as much playing time in as possible.

I know my scales, Modes, appegios etc... I'm creative, can come up with some cool basslines(way better than the crap on MTV these days) Have learned a bit of theory.

The thing that's really eating me up is timing. Which according to my bass teacher is alright , so that means I really need to improve it.

I've maybe neglected this aspect of music which I kind of regret now. Its weird when I see kids from my wifes school play in concerts, its so natural to them at such a young age:bawl

The issue I have is I do the foot tapping thing which is good, but I try to think about it too much. I've got a metronome at home which I try to do stuff with Scales, some lines.

So I'm open to some suggestions , my bass teacher has given me a few, and he says its one of these things that takes a bit of time to master, and it will come. However I'm a perfectionist and I want to nail it !

some questions...

1) Are you tapping your foot all the time ?

2) Are you contantly counting 1...2....3...4 in your head

3) Best use of the metronome ?

4) does it really take time to learn ?

5) Any tips ?

6) Come across any other people with my issues ?

7) Does it really come natural ?


cheers folk, your help would be grateful

[Whiteblooded]

Hey.. I'd just like to say that I'm 19 and have been playing for little over two years. I've never really had a problem with timing, I think it's a pretty natural thing... It can be hard sometimes, and sometimes you'll have to slow a song down just to get it right.

However... knowing theory and modes isn't a natural thing it doesn't come naturally... and that's where you're one up on me I know nothing about theory.

Anyway.. to answer your questions:

1) Are you tapping your foot all the time ?
--> Only really if I'm getting into it and want to hear some percussion, never really to keep time. I find that if I'm slowing down/speeding up on bass, I'll also slow down/speed up with my feet.

2) Are you contantly counting 1...2....3...4 in your head
--> No. Only if a note's in a weird place. But I probably am counting like that subconsiously. I think it's a pretty natural thing.

3) Best use of the metronome ?
--> To be honest, i prefere drum machines, because I think most metronomes use a low pitch.. like a bass. so I can sometimes completely miss the tick noise, because I played on top of it.. and consequently didn't hear it. I just find it weird playing, and knowing I'm in time by not hearing the metronome lol. But drum machines don't give you that problem.

4) does it really take time to learn ?
--> I don't really know what the problem is. I'm guessing taht you're speeding up/slowing down? If you are, I think its pretty natural to speed up and slow down... which is why bands have drummers, someone who can concentrate on keeping speed. Hmm. But if it's a case of not having the 1...2...3...4... in your head, I guess that is a problem, and practice always helps.

5) Any tips ?
--> Some songs use weird time signatures.. and they really throw me off :P

6) Come across any other people with my issues ?
--> No, but all of my friends are guitarrists, who have been playing music since the age of 5

7) Does it really come natural ?
--> I think it did to me.. But whatever a problem is, it can usually be solved by practicing at it.

Just wondering, what is the problem, is it that you find it hard to keep the beat, or that you find it hard to not keep the tempo?

[dmusic148]

I'm 44 and have been playing bass for 27 years. I get lots of high-quality gigs, and my peers tell me I have excellent time.
I have never used a metronome or a drum machine.
I learned how to play by playing along with records, other people, and later, studied Jazz theory a bit.
I tap my feet all the time.
I don't think about it, EXCEPT sometimes when playing really slow tempos. Slow is harder than fast IMO.
I am not Jeff Berlin.

[Serial Junkie]

Howdy,
Knowing scales and arpeggios and dipping your foot in the wonderful world of music theory is great for your head and overanalyzing every nitty gritty detail. What you want to do though is to get away from your head on this one, let yourself feel it, try not to think about it. I know that when I'm in a jam session and I'm grooving along sometimes I screw myself up by thinking about the timing and the rhythm.

To answer your questions:

1. All the time, tapping my foot, bobbing my head, moving my body around, just letting myself go to the music, don't worry about looking like a fool, it's the way music works.

2. Nah, get your head out of it, just groove.

3. Try playing a comfortable line, one that you're really familiar with thats fun, on different metronome settings so that you are working on your timing instead of your fingering.

4. Everything takes time to learn, and having good time will help you learn and to write bass lines. Also I remember reading somewhere that timing is effected by your heart beat and thats why when people are anxious on stage they tend to rush through songs, so try to relax and not worry about it, let the timing come to you.

5. Weird time signatures are just that, "weird". Don't practice on "weird" time signatures until you've got yourself going in "normal" timing. Another general tip is before even picking up the bass learn how to hum or sing the bass line from memory, it will give you a better feel for it. Playing to a drum machine is another great idea that's been mentioned, again, try to play a line you're comfortable with and play over it, messing with the tempo and the time signature as you go.

6. Don't worry, you're not alone in this problem. A close friend of mine is a very talented musician but he has a particularly odd sense of time that he has had to work on so that he can play with other musicians in a band setting.

7. To some people yes, other people have to work on it, it's like anything in life. The real question is whether or not you enjoy it, if you do then don't fret about it, just keep on working towards it and you'll get it down.

Try not to overthink it, just let yourself feel the music. Good luck!

- J.

[Matthijs]

So what is it your having difficulty with? Is it timing as in playing before, on or after the beat. Is it timing as in nailing the right swing feel. Or is it timing as in feeling the form: always naturally feeling what beat and bar you're in. (sorry i don't know if 'form' is the right term in english, I just translated literally). The tapping, counting and metronome can be tools in learning all that.
Anyway they're all learnable skills, that sometimes need time (and I'm not talking about months here) and always leave room for improvement.

[BillyIVbass]

My observations if I'm counting 1234 in my head I'm late. The painful truth is to record a drum loop or metronome and record yourself playing along with it. If you don't have recording gear, I recommend the program Reaper. It is a free to try for 30 days and has a metronome. For me, I was late (behind the beat) I practiced speeding my right hand up. There are guys I know that rush, so they almost need to count the beat before they play it to even themselves out.

You will improve. Good Luck.

[lorenk]

1) Are you tapping your foot all the time ?

Sometimes, depends on if I need to count or if I'm moving my head or body.

2) Are you contantly counting 1...2....3...4 in your head

Not all the time, some songs I need to others I don't. Usually I count 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & though, instead of just counting 1234.

3) Best use of the metronome ?

I've heard that anytime you're not playing along to a song is a good time to use a metronome. I'll get back to you when I follow through with that suggestion

4) does it really take time to learn ?

Time is like any other skill, you gotta work at it (some more then others).

5) Any tips?

Oddly enough, the biggest help I have had came from an old drum teacher I had (I toyed with drumming a while ago). Practice sub-divisions with a metronome. Whole notes, halfs, triplets, quarters, etc etc. Oh and practice reggae. Playing on the up-beat is challenging as hell if you're not used to it (or challenged like I am).

6) Come across any other people with my issues ?

I'm the same way. I have ADHD so sometimes, if say I am not focusing, my time will slip, especially if I am not counting. Luckily counting becomes subconcious the more you do it

7) Does it really come natural ?

See reply to question six.

Good luck and I hope this helps!

[Fergie Fulton]

Try changing the way you interprete timing. If your nome has a pulse light that flashes and allows you to turn off the audio try that. Use the visual reference in place of the audio click.

This will allow a different part of the brain to deal with the timing leaving you free to play. Many deaf of audio imparard musicians can learn by this method. Think about this what does a conductor do, is it audio or visual related. Set the flash in your periphiral vision and see if it helps.

[duo8675309]

Play with your neck.

Every piece of music has some sort of pulse to it. Normally it's four beats to a measure, but regardless it's always something that just feels natural. If you put your bass down and listen to a piece of music, you should be able to slap a constant, steady beat to literally anything you listen to. Concentrate on the snare, the kick drum, but don't count. Just make sure you slap a perfectly even, constant beat. You should be able to feel it match up with the drums and bassline pretty well if you're doing it to a song with a good rhythm section. What you might find is that you had better time when you didn't think about slapping your hand against whatever but instead listened to the song and the music. As a bass player you need to learn to instinctively keep this beat going in your head while you play on top of it. I tend to either tap my foot or bob my head or do something to a constant beat while I play a bassline. It's easier for me to tap my foot to a steady time and then judge when to play notes based off when my foot taps than it is to judge when to play the next note based on the last note I played.

I try to exercise my rhythm skills more when I'm not playing my bass than when I am. When listening to songs, do your best to get your ears under the melody. Quit listening to the snare so much and listen to the kick. Pay attention to the way the drums move the melody along, and tie the two together.

Also, pay attention to how the bassline works off the drum beat. I used to spend hours figuring out how the bass supported the melody but never really thought about how it was working rhythmically in the song.

[Lichtaffen]

I tend to sing bass lines when I'm out walking my dog. It's helped with my concept of a walking bass line. Because we walk with both legs (most of us) and both feet don't land at the exact same duration of time, there is a certain 'swing' to this movement. I tried to internalize this movement and incorporate it into my playing. There is rhythm in many things we do in daily life.

Set your metronome to beep on the two and four of a 4/4 beat. Then play the same things you've been playing previously when the metronome was set on the one, two, three and four. You'll feel your rhythmic deficiencies immediately. This exercise has been discussed at great length in other posts.

[Dbassmon]

I believe that:
1) practice with a metronome or drum machine (controversial in some circles.. Jeff Berlin)
2) Practice a groove with a swing by clicking the metronome on 2 & 4 only (this helps, big time)
3) Practice at very slow tempos at first, slow is harder than fast!
4) Record yourself and keep an archive.... so important to see/hear progress and the recording does not lie.
5) try and visualize the space between notes as space or as a color or a form... mixing sensory perception but it works for me (look up the term Synesthesia, the term "time feel" is a perfect example)

Time is about feel, these are suggestions to improve your feel. It's frustrating at times but necessary. A good teacher is helpful and listen to lots of bass players and lots of styles.

[canyouflybobby]

Thank you for all your suggestions

I'm think about it too much that's my problem.

My eight notes are fine, my sixteens with rests wtc are my really problem.

I'll just have to practice more on it, and get a better metronome

cheerio folks

[Frantic Slayer]

Originally Posted by canyouflybobby

Thank you for all your suggestions

I'm think about it too much that's my problem.

My eight notes are fine, my sixteens with rests wtc are my really problem.

I'll just have to practice more on it, and get a better metronome

cheerio folks

Im probably having the same or similar problem as you. 16th note syncopation is tough. Im only 19 and I can tell you it hasn't come 'naturally' to me yet.

for instance playing only on the e & or the e da is hard for me. yes I need to practice more.

1 e & da 2 e & da 3 e & da 4 e & da

[Largedon]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

Set your metronome to beep on the two and four of a 4/4 beat. Then play the same things you've been playing previously when the metronome was set on the one, two, three and four. You'll feel your rhythmic deficiencies immediately. This exercise has been discussed at great length in other posts.

This is one of the best I things I found to help with time. Once you get used to the 2 & 4, practice putting the click on other parts like just on the 1 or the 2. Once you get real good then put the click on the upbeats. Do this to all your normal exercises: scales, arpeggios, etc.