Help with three-finger technique

[Elchupacabra]

Hey guys, I'm new here. Just for background, I've only been playing bass for just over a year now, music for four. Anyway, I've been having trouble learning three-finger technique recently; I can't really use my ring finger well, and it ends up slowing down my playing. I know that many of you may say to stick to a two-finger or picking technique, but three-finger seems pretty interesting to me. I was just wondering if anyone had any tips or tricks to learning the technique. Thanks.

And sorry if there's a similar topic besides this one.

[Human Bass]

The first thing is to ask yourself if you really need 3 finger plucking. I had my period of trying 3 fingers, just to later find out Im really a 2 fingers guy

[Elchupacabra]

Originally Posted by Human Bass

The first thing is to ask yourself if you really need 3 finger plucking. I had my period of trying 3 fingers, just to later find out Im really a 2 fingers guy

Yeah, I've noticed that I can only really play driving basslines with 2 fingers. It gets kind of monotonous, in my opinion, playing them, so I'm looking for something more interesting and aggressive. Slap and pop doesn't fit in to my band's sound, so I'm looking at 3 fingers.

[Bob DiGiacomo]

Check out Gary Willis's site for some great info on 3 finger technique. I don't personally use it myself, but are hands are all different shapes and sizes and it may just fit you perfectly.

http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/rh1.html

Also check out Billy Sheehan. He uses all 4 fingers on his right hand. You can see it when he plays with Vai on the G3 videos.

One other thought. There is a bassist in Columbus, OH named Andy Woodson. A guy I knew took lessons from him. He taught my friend to play primarily with the 1st and 3rd fingers on the right hand. It can make a lot of sense if your 1st and 3rd fingers are close in length. It makes up for some of the power difference between 1 and 2 due to their length.

And to drive you crazy, James Jamerson played with just one finger, Jaco with 2. You have to find the way that is right for you.

[Elchupacabra]

Originally Posted by bobdigiac@hotma

Check out Gary Willis's site for some great info on 3 finger technique. I don't personally use it myself, but are hands are all different shapes and sizes and it may just fit you perfectly.

http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/rh1.html

Also check out Billy Sheehan. He uses all 4 fingers on his right hand. You can see it when he plays with Vai on the G3 videos.

One other thought. There is a bassist in Columbus, OH named Andy Woodson. A guy I knew took lessons from him. He taught my friend to play primarily with the 1st and 3rd fingers on the right hand. It can make a lot of sense if your 1st and 3rd fingers are close in length. It makes up for some of the power difference between 1 and 2 due to their length.

And to drive you crazy, James Jamerson played with just one finger, Jaco with 2. You have to find the way that is right for you.

Thanks for the info. I'll definitely check it out. But didn't Jaco play with three fingers?

[Human Bass]

Originally Posted by Elchupacabra

Thanks for the info. I'll definitely check it out. But didn't Jaco play with three fingers?

Nope. Jaco plucking was definetly very swift 2 fingers.

[nysbob]

If you want to develop this technique, it's a only a matter discipline. I started by using strict RMI until had it down, at that point you have the strength to be a little more fexible and let the music dictate.

The main problem most people have in starting out is eliminating the "galloping" feel. I suggest playing scales and other exercises using a strict 3 finger aternation, but hitting each note twice. This will force you into a 4/4 feel. The exception would be in alternating strings - I rake the M - RM on the higher string, MI on the lower. By the time the index hits the second note on the lower, you can have R in position again to hit the higher.

Work with a metronome and just keep doing it until until it becomes natural - if you work at enough, it will.

[Erick Lam]

Search for Gary Willis on youtube and you'll find his instruction video in broken parts. Look for parts #2-3-4.

[bearpaw]

i can't understand how jamerson pulled it off with one finger....
another big topic considering three fingers is incorporating the thumb. i had a lesson with dominique di piazza in november at his place in france. and he showed me his technique, which is quite a heavy bit of work if you wanna get around. he told me that garrison got his right hand technique from watching him, just that he got it wrong because he doesn't pluck thumb-index-middle, he goes thumb-middle-index. i've been practising it "wrong" for so long that it's hard for me now to turn it around. i wonder how hadrien feraud does it, the problem is that this technique works with so little motion that you can't tell from utube vids. and since the "wrong" things works for garrison too, i guess it's ok....

[Etingi]

I started practicing with three fingers before I read anything about right hand technique, so I lead with my index instead of ring finger. It seems leading with the ring finger is more common.

There are some techniques I've found that seem to capitalize on the three finger technique. For one, you can practice playing triplets starting with each finger. So if you play cycling through from index to ring like I do, the triplets would be I-M-R, M-R-I, and R-I-M. Then you get to add accents on to that. Be able to emphasize any note within the triplet.

After you have control with the triplets, practice playing quadruplets. That's probably not the right term, so let me explain. Say you have a 4/4 beat divided into eighth notes. You'd play four notes in the space between the 4& and the 1 and emphasize the last note aligned on the 1. You can accent different notes within the four of course, but I usually use it as a fast triplet immediately continuing and ending with the emphasized fourth note. The snare pattern on White Rabbit uses what I'm getting at. Anyway, the finger patterns for these quadruplets would be I-M-R-I, M-R-I-M, R-I-M-R. What makes practicing these fun is if you play the first IMRI cycle, then play the MRIM cycle, then the RIMR, if you use your fingers in the right order, they never break out of the pattern. Like in White Rabbit, if you were to play a note for every snare hit, using this technique the plucking fingers would be

I........M..RIMR...I...MRIM..R........I...MRIM..R. .IMRI...M.......R...IMRI...M...RIMI...M etc. (the periods are just for spacing)
1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&--1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&--1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&--1


It feels natural playing triplets with three fingers, at least for me, but you want to stay conscious of which notes you're accenting. If you're playing quarter notes, the one will be on your index, then middle, then ring, then index again, etc. To play articulately you eventually need to have complete control of each finger independently.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by nysbob

If you want to develop this technique, it's a only a matter discipline. I started by using strict RMI until had it down, at that point you have the strength to be a little more fexible and let the music dictate.

The main problem most people have in starting out is eliminating the "galloping" feel. I suggest playing scales and other exercises using a strict 3 finger alternation, but hitting each note twice. This will force you into a 4/4 feel. The exception would be in alternating strings - I rake the M - RM on the higher string, MI on the lower. By the time the index hits the second note on the lower, you can have R in position again to hit the higher.

Work with a metronome and just keep doing it until until it becomes natural - if you work at enough, it will.

+1

Good advice and wonderful summary of the approach I use, too. I would add that finding a few favorite applications of the technique that can be "whipped out" as needed helped me all those years ago. You have to work it.

I think the first one was Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor." A great tune and well-suited to three-finger playing.

[Elchupacabra]

See, I'd be fine sticking with two fingers (I can play most of the songs that I know with just 2), but I've recently been having a problem in that when I play a fast passage, I start to swing the notes, it's a habit that I can't break. Did any of you encounter this problem?

[zero0bass]

I do three fingers late in a set for 16 note monotonous bits, but its hard to keep the dynamics the same for me. More practice would be necessary, but honestly doesn't seem worth it. I'm no metal player, so I don't really need the speed.

[Elchupacabra]

Also, do any of you use your thumb instead of your ring finger when playing? Any harder?

Originally Posted by Elchupacabra

Also, do any of you use your thumb instead of your ring finger when playing? Any harder?

Hi

I was just going to mention thumb and two fingers!

I use this technique it means I can do a lot of things many other bass players can't do/ wouldn't sound the same.

I really like this technique and one thing i would say is that the thumb is strong and has it's own sound. SO, you can play between thumb and fingers very quick - especially for octaves it is very fast and easy.

Many african players use this technique, which was interesting for me to find out because for me it's a hangover from classical guitar.

[Elchupacabra]

Originally Posted by afromoose

Hi

I was just going to mention thumb and two fingers!

I use this technique it means I can do a lot of things many other bass players can't do/ wouldn't sound the same.

I really like this technique and one thing i would say is that the thumb is strong and has it's own sound. SO, you can play between thumb and fingers very quick - especially for octaves it is very fast and easy.

Many african players use this technique, which was interesting for me to find out because for me it's a hangover from classical guitar.

Thanks. I originally saw Jeff Berlin and Victor Wooten, I think, using it and thought it would be pretty interesting. Do you think that since I've had my thumb active playing slap before, the technique will be easier learning?

Originally Posted by Elchupacabra

Thanks. I originally saw Jeff Berlin and Victor Wooten, I think, using it and thought it would be pretty interesting. Do you think that since I've had my thumb active playing slap before, the technique will be easier learning?

I don't know, it's difficult for me to say because I've played that way since I was about 6 or 7, but I'd say that it's probably quite easy when you get into it.

One thing is I think it's important if you're gonna use that technique that you don't go for the same sound as with two finger technique. It sounds obvious but the technique will sound different, so many of the things you like about two finger technique might not be there, but other things will.

If you listen to El Chupacabra (a song on my band's myspace, live track - quite funny coincidence eh) www.myspace.com/zunzunegui then I'm using it on there. I actually use it most of the time. But there's a Konono Number 1 style bassline after a while (the first trancey dancey bit) which is very repetitive and I think to be honest if I was using just two finger technique my fingers would explode.

If you listen to extra golden, the bass on there is thumb and two finger technique. I know this because the bass player told me so, Ian Eagleson made up the lines, and played them on the record, and then when they went on tour they had to get a bass player. The guy they went with was a seasoned jazz player, but he got really confused he said because of needing to use the thumb and two finger technique. He said it's confusing at first, but that it's awesome, because (as he says) you can do a lot of percussive (almost drumbeat) sort of articulation with it. It's a bit like your thumb is the bass drum, and the fingers are snare or toms. Obviously you leave room for the kit, but the african bass sound is much more percussive. If you watch a lot of african bass players they're right hand is a lot more varied in it's range of articulation and particularly percussive style than more traditional jazz electric playing.

Check out extra golden in my opinion their guitar and bass lines are among the most beautiful and rhythmically, harmonically and melodically interesting grooves being put out at the moment. I'd put it on a par with Blood Sugar Sex Magic, but obviously a very different vibe and feeling. I recommend Ilando Gima Onge as the first tune to listen to, but their whole album is available to listen I think at the Thrill Jockey website. Sorry I'm bigging them up so much but they're my favourite band.

[Prozactrooper]

i cycle through ring middle index in that order counting up to 16 to try and get rid of the gallop, counting out 4 you finish on the finger you started on so its cycling through those 3 movements
also, i try to practice alternative picking on all the fingers, dont really use it as the downstroke tone isn't nearly as good at the moment and i dont really need it while cycling the three fingers anyway, just helps train the fingers to work a little tighter

[beelzelboss]

Alright let me give you my run down on three finger tech.

I have been playing bass for like 3 years, and a few months ago i was like, eh might as well teach myself how to play with 3 fingers. I mean it can't hurt.... so i set my mind to it. and all i can say is practice practice practice.

I first ended up only playing the bottom E string with it. But everyday i sat down with a 'nome and set it to certain speeds and played it using all three fingers. I also switched it up to just ring and index.
I would do that for 8th notes up to as fast as i could keep it going in my head. ya its not fun, i can get up to about 95 before i just can't keep track of it and i start to gallop.
The hardest part for me was to stop the galloping, it takes a lot of time, and its hard, but if you focus on it and go from slow to fast you will get over it...

Next i took easy bass lines that went from string to string and didn't really do much on my left hand (fretting hand) and learned how to play it with my ring finger included. A good excersize that i did that breaks you from starting over to your ring ringer every time you move a finger is just a simple 1-2-3-4 going up, it would look like this
G ----------------------------1-2-3-4
D -------------------1-2-3-4
A ----------1-2-3-4
E 1-2-3-4
R-M-I-R-M-I-R-M-I-R-M-I-R-M-I-R
(Getting all that to line up took me forever because i NEVER tab anything)
i hope you understand this. Its trying to break you from going rmir to the next string and just starting over. I really had to think about it when i was practicing.. like REALLY think about it.

Oh and another thing that will break you from playing your ring finger when you fret with your ring finger is a little hand excersice. it goes like so

Take both hands, with your left hand, touch your Thumb to your index, then thumb to middle, thumb to ring, thumb to pinky. At the same time, take your right hand and do the opposite. Thumb to pink, thumb to ring, thumb to middle, thumb to index. So one goes up while the other goes down. and you want to do them in sync so when one gets to the other side the other is getting there also....

Its going to be a long and hard process to be able to do it well. Just practice practice practice.. Oh and beg you get a callous soon so its a consistent sound.

[gkbass13]

my right hand technique is all about what feels natural to me at this point, after playign for 12 years.

i tried the three finger approach as it is most often done, either RMI or IMR, and what i got form it is my current technical approach where i tend to lead with my ring finger, and alternate with my index...a sort of 2 finger approach, but i freely mix in my middle finger and thumb instinctively...rarely do i think about it before doing it anymore, which is a nice feeling.

unless im doing something overly complex and percussive, my main focus is always on my left hand, which makes playing much less stressful in my opinion.

I guess my advice would be to try and identify what it is you plan on accomplishing by building up this technique, or any technique you decide to learn, and then practice whatever best facilitates that. start slow, and build up, and don't lose focus of what those goals are for yourself and your playing.