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  #1  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:17 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
How can I avoid long term injury?

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Hi TB'ers,

I've been playing for about 2 yrs. now, almost all of it in my bedroom, and I think I'm at what I would call a "advanced beginner" stage in my playing. About a week ago, I decided to learn the Carol Kaye bassline to the Quincy Jones track, Hikky Burr. What a dynamo that line is! Anyone familiar with it knows it's just pretty much a constant flurry of notes.

So, I've learned about half of it, coming along quite beautifully after some intensive shedding, and this morning I woke up with slight but definite tenderness in my left ring and middle fingers.

Anyone else ever have this? How long did it last? Did it go away or recur?

I'm gonna lay off playing until it goes away, which will drive me nuts, but I don't want it to get any worse.

Anyone have any useful tips on how to avoid sustaining an permanent or temporary injury or the best way(s) to treat it? Thanks!
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tell him the cab could double as a pulpit. A gloriously rawkin pulpit.
  #2  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:19 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Which hand has the tendonitis, the fretting hand or the playing hand?
  #3  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
The left, fretting hand.
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"The first thing to do is don't stop. The second thing to do is keep going" -Frank Zappa
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tell him the cab could double as a pulpit. A gloriously rawkin pulpit.
  #4  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:51 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Seattle
Stretching out your hands before you play might help.
  #5  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassinplace View Post
The left, fretting hand.
I'm sure others will chime in here that the first thing you might want to do is analyze your technique. Poor technique can stress the wrist/finger/forearm tendons. You are wise to go cold turkey until the pain subsides. Ice will help relieve tendon pain. Good luck with what could potentially be a very debilitating injury if not addressed properly.

Last edited by baileyboy : 11-15-2011 at 05:56 PM.
  #6  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyboy View Post
I'm sure others will chime in here that the first thing you might want to do is analyze your technique. Poor technique can stress the wrist/finger/forearm tendons. You are wise to go cold turkey until the pain subsides. Ice will help relieve tendon pain. Good luck with what could potentially be a very debilitating injury if not addressed properly.
Thanks. What types of things should I be looking for that may need to be corrected?
__________________
"The first thing to do is don't stop. The second thing to do is keep going" -Frank Zappa
Quote:
Originally Posted by hover View Post
tell him the cab could double as a pulpit. A gloriously rawkin pulpit.
  #7  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:56 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: York, UK
Tenderness in your fingers probably isn't a big deal. Numbness - especially in your first three digits - definitely is. As is any pain / scratchiness in your wrist.

Try to keep both wrists relaxed, so raise the neck so that your fretting hand isn't hooked back towards your forearm too much, and try to keep your picking forearm straight too, from elbow to wrist to fingertips, as straight and relaxed as you can. Extreme wrist angles while moving your fingers cause problems with your tendons eventually and nerve problems then result from swollen tendons. And recovery is not quick or easy.
  #8  
Old 11-15-2011, 06:19 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassinplace View Post
Thanks. What types of things should I be looking for that may need to be corrected?

Here is some information I found regarding the fretting hand...

FRETTING HAND TECHNIQUE

In most applications, the basic technique of our fretting hand remains unchanged. For example, whether you are using a finger style, slap & pop, or muting approach with the plucking hand, the fretting hand is essentially doing the same thing.

1. Avoid using a flat fingered approach.
In other words, try to play more using the tips of the fingers. This involves keeping the fingers of the fretting hand slightly curved.

The reason for this is so you can effectively minimize the surface area coming into contact with the strings and the fingerboard. The result is better intonation and greater accuracy with your fretting hand.

2. Keep your thumb at the back of the neck.
Whenever possible, try to avoid bringing your thumb over the top of the neck. The higher your thumb is, the more inhibited your reach will be for your fretting fingers, especially when playing the lower pitched strings of your bass. A good place to keep the thumb is somewhere midway at the back of the neck, between the index and middle fingers, so you can maximize stability and reach.

Although your thumb effectively becomes an anchor for your fretting hand, you DO NOT want to squeeze hard with it! There shouldn't be any excessive force coming from your thumb when fretting notes on the fingerboard. While you play, try allowing your thumb to freely slide over the back of the neck in all directions so that it is basically following your fretting fingers. This will insure that you are staying relaxed and subsequently offer you maximum reach in all positions.

3. Maintain space between your palm and the back of the neck.
The main purpose of this is to maintain consistency in hand position, regardless of what string you are playing. You will notice that if your palm meets the back of the neck, it naturally pulls your thumb over the top of the neck and turns your fretting fingers to a position less perpendicular to the strings.
This position makes it much harder to play with curved fingers and contributes to a lack of reach because of the raised position of the thumb.

4. Avoid sharp wrist angles
The importance of this can not be overestimated. Sharp wrist angles, combined with tension and fatigue, significantly contribute to bass players' hand injuries, and these injuries can sometimes be irreversible. Problems such as carpal tunnel syndrome, repetitive stress injury are caused by excessive stress on the wrists. In general, you want to keep your bass at a height that allows a moderate wrist angle for both hands. You will find that if your bass hangs excessively low, a sharper angle is incurred by the wrist of the fretting hand. If you wear your bass excessively high, the wrist of your plucking hand will incur the sharper angle.

5. Stay relaxed
The benefits of relaxation should be obvious to us as players. The tensing up of our bodies robs us of our endurance, dexterity, and technical agility. Relaxation begins with the shoulders. Most players that struggle with tension in their playing usually carry most of their tension in their shoulders. Next time you are performing or practicing, take a moment to analyze the height of your shoulders, as well as the level of tension in your forearms and hands. When you stop to take a break in between songs or exercises, relax and analyze this again. If you discover a significant difference in the way your shoulders, arms, and hands look or feel, you probably are playing with too much tension. As soon as you recognize that your shoulders or other parts of your body are tensing up, stop playing immediately. Drop your arms to your sides, relax completely, and then lift your hands to the bass and start playing again. As soon as you feel yourself start to tense up again, stop playing and do the same thing. By doing this, you are teaching yourself to become more in tune with your body while becoming more adept at staying relaxed.

I hope this has been of some assistance to you.

Last edited by baileyboy : 11-15-2011 at 06:22 PM.
  #9  
Old 11-15-2011, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevteop View Post
Tenderness in your fingers probably isn't a big deal. Numbness - especially in your first three digits - definitely is. As is any pain / scratchiness in your wrist.

Try to keep both wrists relaxed, so raise the neck so that your fretting hand isn't hooked back towards your forearm too much, and try to keep your picking forearm straight too, from elbow to wrist to fingertips, as straight and relaxed as you can. Extreme wrist angles while moving your fingers cause problems with your tendons eventually and nerve problems then result from swollen tendons. And recovery is not quick or easy.
Thanks!
__________________
"The first thing to do is don't stop. The second thing to do is keep going" -Frank Zappa
Quote:
Originally Posted by hover View Post
tell him the cab could double as a pulpit. A gloriously rawkin pulpit.
  #10  
Old 11-15-2011, 06:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyboy View Post
Here is some information I found regarding the fretting hand...

FRETTING HAND TECHNIQUE

In most applications, the basic technique of our fretting hand remains unchanged. For example, whether you are using a finger style, slap & pop, or muting approach with the plucking hand, the fretting hand is essentially doing the same thing.

1. Avoid using a flat fingered approach.
In other words, try to play more using the tips of the fingers. This involves keeping the fingers of the fretting hand slightly curved.

The reason for this is so you can effectively minimize the surface area coming into contact with the strings and the fingerboard. The result is better intonation and greater accuracy with your fretting hand.

2. Keep your thumb at the back of the neck.
Whenever possible, try to avoid bringing your thumb over the top of the neck. The higher your thumb is, the more inhibited your reach will be for your fretting fingers, especially when playing the lower pitched strings of your bass. A good place to keep the thumb is somewhere midway at the back of the neck, between the index and middle fingers, so you can maximize stability and reach.

Although your thumb effectively becomes an anchor for your fretting hand, you DO NOT want to squeeze hard with it! There shouldn't be any excessive force coming from your thumb when fretting notes on the fingerboard. While you play, try allowing your thumb to freely slide over the back of the neck in all directions so that it is basically following your fretting fingers. This will insure that you are staying relaxed and subsequently offer you maximum reach in all positions.

3. Maintain space between your palm and the back of the neck.
The main purpose of this is to maintain consistency in hand position, regardless of what string you are playing. You will notice that if your palm meets the back of the neck, it naturally pulls your thumb over the top of the neck and turns your fretting fingers to a position less perpendicular to the strings.
This position makes it much harder to play with curved fingers and contributes to a lack of reach because of the raised position of the thumb.

4. Avoid sharp wrist angles
The importance of this can not be overestimated. Sharp wrist angles, combined with tension and fatigue, significantly contribute to bass players' hand injuries, and these injuries can sometimes be irreversible. Problems such as carpal tunnel syndrome, repetitive stress injury are caused by excessive stress on the wrists. In general, you want to keep your bass at a height that allows a moderate wrist angle for both hands. You will find that if your bass hangs excessively low, a sharper angle is incurred by the wrist of the fretting hand. If you wear your bass excessively high, the wrist of your plucking hand will incur the sharper angle.

5. Stay relaxed
The benefits of relaxation should be obvious to us as players. The tensing up of our bodies robs us of our endurance, dexterity, and technical agility. Relaxation begins with the shoulders. Most players that struggle with tension in their playing usually carry most of their tension in their shoulders. Next time you are performing or practicing, take a moment to analyze the height of your shoulders, as well as the level of tension in your forearms and hands. When you stop to take a break in between songs or exercises, relax and analyze this again. If you discover a significant difference in the way your shoulders, arms, and hands look or feel, you probably are playing with too much tension. As soon as you recognize that your shoulders or other parts of your body are tensing up, stop playing immediately. Drop your arms to your sides, relax completely, and then lift your hands to the bass and start playing again. As soon as you feel yourself start to tense up again, stop playing and do the same thing. By doing this, you are teaching yourself to become more in tune with your body while becoming more adept at staying relaxed.

I hope this has been of some assistance to you.
Thanks! I'm sure I do all of these things, but I'm going to make a very close and throrough analyzation as soon as I'm able to. Maybe it was just the endurance needed for this tune? Like I said there's a barrage of notes going on for over 3 minutes and I've been shedding it a lot over the past week.
__________________
"The first thing to do is don't stop. The second thing to do is keep going" -Frank Zappa
Quote:
Originally Posted by hover View Post
tell him the cab could double as a pulpit. A gloriously rawkin pulpit.
  #11  
Old 11-15-2011, 06:32 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassinplace View Post
Thanks! I'm sure I do all of these things, but I'm going to make a very close and throrough analyzation as soon as I'm able to. Maybe it was just the endurance needed for this tune? Like I said there's a barrage of notes going on for over 3 minutes and I've been shedding it a lot over the past week.
Yeah, could be your technique is fine, but you just gave your fingers a workout they are not used to. Smart move to rest them when not sure, though.
  #12  
Old 11-15-2011, 06:41 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portsmouth, VA
I had the same problem I started playing 1-2-4. If I start playing OFPF when I wake-up in the morning my left hand has a little numbness.

Bad Habits for Bass: The 1 Finger Per Fret System - YouTube

Critique of One-finger-per-fret technique - YouTube
  #13  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:30 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron G View Post
I had the same problem I started playing 1-2-4. If I start playing OFPF when I wake-up in the morning my left hand has a little numbness.

Bad Habits for Bass: The 1 Finger Per Fret System - YouTube

Critique of One-finger-per-fret technique - YouTube
Yeah, the OFPF method never made much sense to me for the most part. I use it sometimes in the middle of the neck, but the frets are too wide at the bottom and too skinny at the top for that, I think. For me, anyway.
__________________
"The first thing to do is don't stop. The second thing to do is keep going" -Frank Zappa
Quote:
Originally Posted by hover View Post
tell him the cab could double as a pulpit. A gloriously rawkin pulpit.
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